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Alchemy Academy archive October 2000 Back to alchemy academy archives. Subject: ACADEMY : John de Monte-Snyders From: Massimo Marra Date: 3 Oct 2000 You can find some information in the short introduction to the Italian translation of the "De Pharmaco Catholico": Johannes De Monte Snyder - Commentario sul Farmaco Universale, Arché, Milano 1974 Massimo Marra Subject: ACADEMY : John de Monte-Snyders From: Adam McLean Date: 3 Oct 2000 Massimo Marra Thanks so much for the reference to the Italian translation of the 'De Pharmaco Catholico'. How foolish of me not to have looked at this as I have a copy here in Glasgow. It drew my attention to something else I had forgotten - the fact that Newton had studied and worked extensively with Monte Snyder' 'Metamorphosis Planetarum'. There is a detailed and very useful discussion of Newton's interest in this work in Betty Dobbs 'The Foundations of Newton's alchemy', CUP, 1975. Also in the Italian introduction is a short description of a supposed transmutation of lead into gold carried out in 1660 by Monte-Snyder in Vienna in the presence of the Emperor Leopold I. Adam McLean Subject: ACADEMY : John de Monte-Snyders From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 Adam wrote: > Also in the Italian introduction is a short description of a supposed > transmutation of lead into gold carried out in 1660 by Monte-Snyder > in Vienna in the presence of the Emperor Leopold I. Monte Snyder in Vienna at the court of Leopold in 1660 reminds me of Francesco Maria Santinelli's visit there in 1659 with the verses "Carlo V" in which he mentions the golden and rosy cross "la mia aurea rose croce fortuna". Interesting since Palombaras Porta magica uses the planetary signs from Monte Snyders 'De pharmaco Universale'. I have newly found a reliable reference (in Arckenholtz major biography with documents 'Memoires concernant Christine reine de Suède' Amsterdam,1751) that Santinelli was supported by Christina even until then (other sources claim that they broke up after the Monaldescho murder in 1657). And that it was Christina who sent Santinelli on a diplomatic mission to Leopold in 1659 after Christina also supported Santinellis love affair with the countess di Ceri, which was frowned upon by the Pope who had tried to separate these two because of Santinelli's lower social rank. Santinelli who knew Palombara may thus also have known Monte Snyder directly. Santinelli was also accused of stealing a jewel from Palombara in around 1658 around. Santinelli is portrayed in rumours in Paris as the one who misled Christina in the Monaldescho murder, that he was her lover etc. Both rumours are false, but concealing a larger esoteric intrigue apparently. I wish one could know more details about these characters. It would be worthwhile to get to know more about Leopold's court as a center for alchemy. What can be known about this milieu? Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Mike Dickman Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 Is there any documented proof of people like Dante's, Lully's, Jehan de Meung's (and so on) *actual* involvement with alchemy (in any of its forms), or is it only pseudo-epigraphic and/or hearsay? m Subject: ACADEMY : Raimondo Montecuccoli From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 I now recall that Raimondo Montecuccoli - an Austrian knight of the Golden Fleece and member of Christina's Amaranthe Order kept a notebook called the "Zibaldone" in which he recorded his Paracelsian readings, alchemy and his ownership of Robert Fludd's 'Summum Bonum'! I shall investigate these printed records when the Royal Library here in Stockholm opens again after this weeks closedown of the library system. Montecuccoli was in Stockholm as the emperor Leopold's emissar in 1653 and he seems to have developed towards esotericism in the same fashion as Christina did. He was in Vienna in 1659 when Santinelli arrived. Leopold I on the other hand was the one who handed the messianic alchemist Giuseppe Borri over to the Inquisition in 1670, so much for his commitment to protecting alchemists. Perhaps Borri was a specially provocative case. I have been on the phone some years ago with a man in Paris who claims to have the copy of a letter from Christina in which there is an alchemical recipe that he will not divulge with Christina's comment : Moi Imperatrice et reine, have heard this from the mouth of Borri and seen the process. I cannot remember the details and since the letter is not available, its whereabouts hidden, one can only wonder why she uses the word Imperatrice which she never uses elsewhere. Perhaps a Rosicrucian hoax in the footsteps of Canseliet. On the other hand she met Borri in Amsterdam 1667 and there are other indications of this sort as you know. I do not know what to believe and regret that not all documents can be made available to modern researchers. Alchemy has its rule of secrecy but this only pertains to the process as far as I understand. Susanna Åkerman Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Michael Martin Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 Mike and all, The Dante connection, as far as I know, is connected to Gabriel Rosseti's assertion that the rose of heaven in the Paradiso is a reference to an occult order along Rosicrucian/alchemical lines. Eliphas Levi in his letters also makes this claim. As for de Meung, I am sure you are aware of his supposed piece in the Theatricum Chemicum Britannicum, though I am not sure how reliable that connection is. As far as Lully goes...I don't know. Michael Martin Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Adam McLean Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 Dear Mike Dickman, Dante. Surely Dante was a bit early (1265-1321) to have access to the kind of allegorical alchemical symbolism and imagery that did not appear till the early 15th century. There is very little published on any supposed use of alchemical ideas by Dante. I have not seen H.F. Dunbar's 'Symbolism in mediaeval thought and its consummation in the Divine Comedy', Yale, 1929, which apparently discusses the influences on Dante. (Old scholarship but possibly still valid.) In the 'Divine Comedy' does not Dante condemn two token alchemists Capocchio and Griffolino, to an eternal leprosy in Hell. This suggests that Dante saw alchemists rather as scoundrels, fraudulent healers or multlpliers of gold, than as sources of allegorical imagery. De Meung. The alchemical association of de Meung (c.1240- c.1305) with alchemy arises because of his defense of alchemy in his 'Roman de la Rose', but he does not really show there any significant understanding of the subject. The influences that worked within his allegorical poem are surely derived from the time he lived, as many scholars have investigated over the years. Again he lived too early for the allegorical symbolism that characterised the later alchemy. ( Forget about Flamel's 'Hieroglyphic figures' - whether or not someone called Flamel existed in the 14th century is unimportant - the 'Hieroglyphic figures' were obviously a product of the late 16th/ early 17th century.) The alchemical association of de Meung with alchemy is further muddled by the later addition by Jean Perreal (1460-1530) of an alchemical verse in the style of de Meung. This is the one which appears in books and on the alchemy web site and is usually quoted to give credence to the view of de Meung as alchemist. It was, however, written more than a century later. Lull and alchemy. One must surely turn to Michela Periera's masterful account of Lull 'The alchemical Corpus attributed to Raymond Lull., Warburg, 1989. All is carefully dissected there. Mike, You are asking questions about an early phase of European alchemy - at the turn of the 13th century into the 14th. It is difficult to see this period clearly as it predates printing and though there are a number of manuscript sources one needs to have a considerable ability with the Latin of that time in order to penetrate these writings (as well being able to read the handwriting!). There is an obvious change in alchemy at the beginning of the 15th century when a new allegorical view of alchemy began to appear in the 'Pretiossissime Donum Dei', the 'Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit', the 'Aurora consurgens' and the 'Splendor solis' manuscripts. One cannot really read the alchemy of the 13th/14th century through this later allegorical material. Dear Michael Martin, Beware quoting Eliphas Levi as an authority. He was a romanticiser and propogandist for certain ideas, the veracity of which is rather dubious. Levi should be treated as a phenomenon of the 19th century French occult revival, and not as a serious scholar. To get closer to the truth of a subject as confused and obscure as alchemy we must turn to those with a clear mind who are prepared to look at alchemy as it is, rather than those who want to present alchemy in a way they would prefer it to be. Adam McLean Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Adam McLean Date: 9 Oct 2000 Mike Dickman wrote: >Is their any documented proof of people like Dante's, Lully's, Jehan de >Meung's (and so on) *actual* involvement with alchemy (in any of its forms), >or is it only pseudo-epigraphic and/or hearsay? At the risk of offending a number of people (something I seem to be doing a great deal recently!) it may be that sometimes we are looking through the wrong end of the telescope. People interested in alchemy often want it to be a hidden influence behind outer culture, when the fact is that alchemy lived alongside and responded to changes in this outer culture. Could it not be that we should be looking for the influences of Dante, de Meung and the poets and authors of allegorical works during the 13th and 14th centuries, upon alchemical writers? Could it be that alchemical writers were responding to this material and recasting the way in which they communicated their ideas into similar allegorical forms? Thus the explosion of alchemical allegorical works in the 15th century. Perhaps we are reading the influences the wrong way round? Adam McLean Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Adam McLean Date: 10 Oct 2000 There is an article by the respected German scholar E. von Lippman in an old journal dating from 1922. This issue was devoted to exploring various aspects and cultural influences on Dante. Lippmann appears to have been asked to look at the chemical and technological ideas in Dante. He seems to have found very little apart from the obvious references to the four elements, four qualities, the four temperaments, the planets and metals, and various herbs and substances. These are ideas which were current in the culture of the time and did not require any specialist alchemical knowledge. Lippmann, Edmund O. von. Chemisches und technologisches bei Dante. Archivo di Storio della Scienza (later Archeion) 3, 1922. p45-56. Adam McLean Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 There is the book "Dante, alchimiste" by Jacques Breyer Paris 1957. I looked at it while studying Emperor Henry and the Paradiso. It is not very good I thought and left it at the time. I think the point is the colour symbolism in Dante. But perhaps you should take a look. Gabriele Rossetti (the pre-Raphaelite painter's father) published a string of books based on his own interpretations making Dante into a platonically inspired follower of the Templars and as a proto-Rosicrucian. This did not depend on any alchemical symbolism as I recall. But Rosetti trotted this interpretation out as a sequel to his grand work 'Il mistero del amor platonico' and his 'Il spirito anti-papale del medioeve che produssa la riforma'. c:a 1870 (Put on index). In this milieu it would be natural to speculate on alchemy in Dante as well. Probably something interesting could be done on sacred colourings of priestly robes white, black, red and its correspondence to the process, but I have not seen any study of this sort. What is the hearsay? Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Michael Martin Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 Adam, Please don't think I was suggesting Levi as an authority, but only as a source for the speculation concerning Dante and alchemy. Michael Martin Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Mike Dickman Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000: Thank you. These replies - all of them - are exactly what I was looking for. I can now safely refer them to the girl who originally put the question. With much respect, m Subject: ACADEMY : Coloured robes and alchemy Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 From: Ed Thompson As ever, an interesting suggestion from Susanna Åkerman > Probably something interesting could be done on sacred colourings of > priestly robes white, black, red and its correspondence to the > process, but I have not seen any study of this sort. In both the Christianopolis (ch.24) of Andreae and the Severambia of Vairasse there is the usual utopian ideal of two suits of clothing per person, differing in material depending on the season: linen or cotton for summer, and wool for winter. I did not suppose there was any alchemical significance, but both texts also suggest coloured robes for special purposes: In Christianopolis 'The colour set aside for religion is white, for those who administer the community it is red, scholars wear blue, and green is for those who provide for the community.'(ch.84) In Severambia the magistrates are clothed in silk, and the highest officials wear cloth of gold or silver, with 'musketeers in blue robes, halberdiers in red, older men in black robes' surrounding an enthroned figure in purple (Vairasse 1677-9: 47-8). But - do these colours suggest anything, I now wonder? Ed Thompson Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Stefan Alexe Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 As for a bibliography-list, these books might contain some information: Cerchio, Bruno: L' ermetismo di Dante Roma : Ed. Mediterranee, 1988. - 262 S. : Ill. (Esoterismo e alchimia ; 4) Contro, Primo: Dante templare e alchimista Dante templare e alchimista : la pietra filosofale nella Divina Commedia ; Inferno / Primo Contro Foggia : Bastogi, 1998. (204 S.) (Biblioteca massonica) (ISBN 88-8185-121-0) Marino, Guglielmo: Esoterismo e "Divina commedia" 2. ed., Como, Ed. Avatar 1993 (397 S.) Stefan Alexe Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: José Rodríguez Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 Dante, Meung and Lully are three examples of the pseudoepigraphical tradition in the Late Middle Age. There are names with a similar status: Chaucer, Petrarca, Thomas Aquinas, Ockham, Arnau de Vilanova, Nicholas Flammel, Cecco d'Ascoli, etc. I think there are no definitive references that they were working on alchemy. Dante Alighieri: I think "Dante alchemist" is the result of a reinterpretation of his allegorical works. In his obscure book "L'esoterisme de Dante" a key figure of 20th century esotericism, René Guénon (1886-1951), intensely contributed to diffuse the image of Dante works as example of an universal tradition that includes philosophy, mysticism, religions, Rosicrucianism... There is an "Associazione Studi Danteschi e Tradizionali" working in this esoterical way. Postal Address: Associazione di Studi Danteschi e Tradizionali c/o Renzo Guerci, via Paolo Veronese 105, 10148 Torino I know about some books trying to work up an alchemical interpretation in Dante's "Inferno". One of the most recent is: - PRIMO CONTRO, (1998), "Dante templare e alchimista", Bastogi, Foggia. In the last year Angelo Chiaretti, well-known Dantist, presented a book on Dante and alchemy but I have not checked its: - ANGELO CHIARETTI, (1999), "Dante medico, mago e alchimista. Profili ed immagini di un Alighieri sconosciuto", Mediamed, Milano. Moreover, Dante shows tiny mentions of alchemy in his "Divina Commedia". In his "Inferno" (section 29) Dante and Virgil move to a spot where they can better view the place of the Falsifiers. Most of these sinners lie in a grotesque and diseased heap while others crawl about aimlessly. Dante notices two shades furiously scratching scabs off one another as if they were both scaling fish. He asks the shades for their names and their stories. The first spirit identifies himself as an alchemist from Arezzo. Minos sent him to this Circle because alchemy is a form of falsifying. The second pirit proudly identifies himself as Capocchio, another famous alchemist. As a result Dante saw alchemy as fraudulent tecnique: "Ma perché sappi chi sì ti seconda contra i Sanesi, aguzza ver' me l'occhio, sì che la faccia mia ben ti risponda: sì vedrai ch'io son l'ombra di Capocchio, che falsai li metalli con l'alchìmia; e te dee ricordar, se ben t'adocchio, com'io fui di natura buona scimia". This is a typical point of view in the italian popular literature at the end of the 13th century or during the 14th and 15th centuries. I will edit an article by the scholar Julia Ortega about this question in «Azogue», nº 5, (2001). We can find notices about pseudoepigraphical works on alchemy attributed to Dante in: - H. CORBETT, (1939), "Catalogue des manuscrits alchimiques latins", t. II, p. 131. ------------------------------------ Jean de Meung: There is a short reference on alchemy in his "Roman de la Rose" (In bold strokes he describes alchemy as a «Philosophia naturalis»). That is the source for subsequents pseudoepigraphical works in verse. For example: "Les Remontrances de nature à l'Alchymiste errant avec la Reponse du dit alchimiste". I found articles explaining on "the alchemist Jean de Meung" but all these works had been built with a lazy critical sense: - C. MELÁ, (1983), "Le miroir périlleux on l'alchimie de la rose", in «Europe», nº 654, pp. 72-83. - D. POIRON, (1984), "Guillaume de Lorris, alchimiste et géomètre", in «L'informaton littéraire», pp. 6-11. André Vernet wrote up an excellent study on Jean de Meung and "Les Remontraces de la Nature". Vernet makes clear that the real author is Jean Perreal: - A. VERNET, (1943), "Jean Perréal, poète et alchimiste", en: «Biblithèque d'Humanisme et Renaissance», III, pp 214-252. Other important source is: - L. FRATI, (1919), "Poesie alchimistiche attribuite a Jean de Meung", in «Archivum Romanicorum», III, pp. 121-126. Few years ago Pierre-Yves Badel worded a prolix article with an extensive bibliographical background by Didier Kahn: - PIERRE-YVES BADEL, (1996), "Lectures alchimiques du Roman de la Rose", in «Chrysopoeia», 5, pp. 173-190. ------------------------------------------------------------- Ramon Llull (Raymond Lully): Michela Pereira is the most autoritative scholar on the achemical corpus attributed to Llull. She said that Ramon Llull was not an alchemist. I think she explains an excellent judgment and a lot of historical facts Pereira's books on Llull: - M. PEREIRA, (1989), "The alchemical corpus attributed to Raymond Lull, Warburg Institute surveys and texts", 18, London : Warburg Institute, University of London. - M. PEREIRA, (1992), "L'Oro dei Filosofi", CISAM, Spoleto. - MICHELA PEREIRA; BARBARA SPAGGIARI, (1999), "Il Testamentum Alchemico attributo a Raimondo Lullo: edizione del testo latino e catalano dal manoscritto Oxford, Corpus Christi College, 244", Edizioni del Galluzzo, Tavarnuzze (Florencia). Pereira's articles and papers on Llull: - MICHELA PEREIRA (1984), "Quintessenza alchemica (Raimondo Lullo & Gerolamo da Cremona)", Kos. 1,7. - M. PEREIRA, (1985), "El concepte de natura en el context de les obres cientifiques de Ramon Llull", in «Randa. Logica, ciencia, mistica i literatura en l'obra de Ramon Llull» 19. - M. PEREIRA, (1986), "Filosofia naturale lulliana e alchimia", in: «Rivista di storia della filosofia», 41. - M. PEREIRA, (1990), "Opus alchemicum i Ars combinatoria : el Liber de secretis naturae seu de quinta essentia en la tradicio lul. Liana", en: «Randa. 27. Del frau a l'erudicio. Aportaciones a la historia del Lul. lisme dels segles 14 al 18. - M. PEREIRA, (1992), "Alchimia lulliana : aspetti e problemi del 'corpus' di opere alchemiche attribuite a Raimondo Lullo (XIV-XVII sec.)", en: «Annali dell'Istituto universitario orientale. Sezione romanza» 34. - M. PEREIRA (1993), "Mater medicinarum : la tradizione dell'elixir nella medicina del XV secolo", en: «Annali del dipartimento di filosofia», 9. - M. PEREIRA, (1993), "Un tesoro inestimabile : Elixir e "prolongatio vitae" nell'alchimia del' 300." en «Micrologus», 1, pp. 161-187. - M. PEREIRA, (1994), "Medicina in the Alchemical Writings Attributed to Raimond Lull (14th-17th Centuries)." in Rattansi & A.Clericuzio (ed.), «Alchemy and Chemistry in the 16th and 17th Centuries», Dordrecht, pp. 1-16. - M. PEREIRA, (1995), "Teorie dell'elixir nell'alchimia latina medievale." in Le crisi dell'alchimia, «Micrologus», 3, pp. 103-148. - M. PEREIRA, (1996), "Alchemy and the use of vernacular language in the Late Middle Ages", in: «Newsletter of the Societas Magica», nº 3. - M. PEREIRA, (1997), "Alchemy and the Use of Vernacular Language in The Late Middle Ages", paper in: «32nd International Congress on Medieval Studies on may, 8-11, 1997», [Non-Session Events], Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo, Michigan. - M. PEREIRA, (1998),"L'origine dell'idea di quinta essenza nell'alchimia medioevale", en: Franco Calascibetta (ed.), «Atti del VII Convegno Nazionale di Storia e Fondamenti della Chimica, Roma: Accademia Nazionale delle Scienze detta dei XL», (Estratto dal Volume 115, Memorie di Scienze Fisiche e Naturali, «Rendiconti della Accademia Nazionale delle Scienze detta dei XL», serie V, vol. XXI, part II, tome II, 1997), p. 71 -82. - M. PEREIRA, (2000), "Heaven on Earth: From the 'Tabula smaragdina' to the Alchemical Fifth Essence", in: «Early Science and Medicine», vol 5, nº 2, pp. 131-144. José Rodríguez Subject: ACADEMY : Dante, Lully, de Meung and alchemy From: Mike Dickman Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 Susanna Åkerman asked: > What is the hearsay? Much of this kind of guff. Even AMORC lays claim to him! m Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Gleb Butuzov Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 Dear José, you wrote: >Dante, Meung and Lully are three examples of the >pseudoepigraphical tradition in the Late Middle Age. There >are names with a similar status: Chaucer, Petrarca, Thomas >Aquinas, Ockham, Arnau de Vilanova, Nicholas Flammel, >Cecco d'Ascoli, etc. I think there are no definitive references >that they were working on alchemy. If I understand you correctly, there was a historical person Nicolas Flamel, but he actually was not involved with alchemy. Currently I'm preparing a Russian translation of Flamel's works for publication, and I would kindly ask you to specify this thesis more in detail if possible, and/or refer to some bibliografical material if such exists. Thank you in advance and best regards. Gleb Butuzov. Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 Claude Gagnon argues in his "Flamel sous investigation" Editions le Loup de Gouthiers, Quebec 1994 (347 Rue St. Paul, Quebec, GIK, 3X1, 418-694 2224 Canada) that Flamel's 'Livre des figures hieroglyphique' is a work composed by its editor Beroalde de Verville in 1612, mainly because near all its alchemical ideas are drawn from the tracts in "Artis aurifera quam chemicam vocant antiquissimi auctores" published by Peter Perna, Basel 1572. The editor calls himself Arnauld de Cabalerie which is an imperfect anagram of Beroald de Verville. In a note by the eighteenth century librarian at the library of Sainte Genevieve there is a now seemingly lost tract called "Aventures d'Ali el Mosclan surnommé dans ses conquetes Slomnal Calife" Paris 1582 translated from the Arabic by one curious Rabi el ullae de Deon. Gagnon points out that the translator's odd name is an anagram of Beroalde de Verville while Slomnal Calife is a perfect anagram of Nicolas Flamel. However, Kjell Lekeby has found a Latin text of the 'Liber Figurarum Hieroglyphicarum Nicolai Flammelli scriptores' with illustrations drawn in a new way in the freemasonic library in Stockholm deposited there by the eighteenth century high-ranking mason, royal tutor and author of esoteric allegory Carl Gustaf Tessin. Lekeby has informed Gagnon that there is a translation of the word qualitate to egalité in the French 1612 edition which does not make sense: qu'elle/la pierre/ est accomplie en toute droicture et esgalité" which in the Latin is "eum iam esse perfectum in omni rectitudine et qualitate" which makes sense! (Is it the original?) Lekeby has translated the Latin version which is almost identical to the French version into Swedish and he has published his Latin version in facsimile in the small press: Forlag G. Wendelholm, S-640 51 Stjarnhov Sweden. A press that also sells many German alchemical texts and Dees 'Monas' in latin in a new edition. Worth checking out! Gagnon has found a Latin version in the Vatican thanks to Adam's lists but Lekeby says it is not identical to the Masonic copy in Stockholm, instead it is probably an eighteenth century translation. Lekeby thinks his copy is a seventeenth century Latin text and in his mind perhaps the original from which Verville translated. Gagnon has gained an ear in France and the world at large but perhaps Lekeby's finding should be considered also. He will join the academy shortly, but asked me to post this. Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Mike Dickman Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 Gleb, Hi. Don't know if you're aware of Didier Kahn's edition of the Flamel texts, 'Ecrits Alchimiques: Nicolas Flamel' [LES BELLES LETTRES]... His introduction is really interesting and obviously very soundly based. Love, m Subject: ACADEMY : Coloured robes and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 The bafflement concerning the complex messages that the rare quality of colour in dress provoked in earlier ages should be calibrated with Gale E. Christianson reports in his study of Isaac Newton - "In the prescence of the creator - Isaac Newton and his times" Free press New York 1984, that in correspondence to Francis Aston, Newton discussed Michael Maier and his "Symbolae mensae duodecim natorium" Frankfort 1617. Newton then raised the question of "Bory" the exiled Italian who had "secrets of a great worth" in medicine and that Aston could identify as a man clad in in green. Giuseppe Borri had after his imprisonment in the Castel St.Angelo in 1670, become known for his showing himself on a balcony clad in a green robe. Newton noted this fact. It is noteworthy (but perhaps far fetched) that the Golden Cross of St Lazarus ordained in Gold- und Rosencreutz Orden was with a sash in green. The green could signify vitriol- the green salt and the greening and regeneration of nature in general. Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Gleb Butuzov Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 Dear Susanna, Thank you very much for your comment - you're as helpful and precise as usual. That's info I actually needed. Hi Mike. Yes, I know about Kahn's edition, but unfortunately I do not have it, I used just Flamand's ("Oeuvres") and information I found in various books in Adam's home library last year. My best wishes. Gleb. Subject: ACADEMY : Latin Monas From: Chris Pickering Date: 12 Oct 2000 Hello Susanna, Do you have any more information about the new latin edition of Dee's 'Monas Hieroglyphica'. The Wendelholm website does not mention it. Is it just a facsimile or transcript of the text (and, if so, is it the 1564 or 1591 edition). Or is there anything original to this new edition ? Chris Pickering Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Claude Gagnon Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 Dear Susanna Akerman, I am at the moment in Paris to work on Flamel's case. I have not all my tools to answer your letter. I will try to respond in a week when I will be back in Canada. Meanwhile I would like to make two brief remarks; First Didier Kahn, with whom I have lunch tomorrow, agrees, in his edition, with my judgment on the apocryphal nature of that book. Secondly, I have already written a comparison between the latin version of Mr. Lekeby and the latin version in the Vatican (that yourself have pointed out to me few years ago). For me, the Vatican version is more complete than the Stockholm one but both are retroversions of the french text. I have many arguments in my paper to prove that neither the Vatican or the Stockholm versions are the real originals. I still think that the book attributed to Flamel could not have been written before 1602. I have already sent to Mr. Lekeby and to Mr. McLean a copy of that thesis which has been sanctioned by a jury at the Sorbonne in 1989. On the jury there was also professor Halleux who approves the apocryphal nature of that book. My comparison of the two latin retroversions will be available in a few months when it will be published in Paris. I have already made the corrections on the galleys. I can't go faster. Sorry for my bad english. Claude Gagnon from Flamel's neigbourhood in Paris Subject: ACADEMY : Latin Monas From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 Wendelholm's edition of the Monas is a facsimile of the 1591 edition. No new commentary but it is a nice object at 240 Swedish kronor. It can be used with Josten's translation in Ambix 1964 for working up one's neo-latin as well as an exercise in penetrating to the core of Dee's argument. Brian Vickers in a review of Frances Yates called the Monas the most obscure work written by an Englishman and he doubted that it was cited by even ten readers during the Renaissance. These doubts can be quelled by seeing the many German translations of the Monas, one in the Christina collection in the Vatican, and these texts point to many alchemical/Rosicrucian followers on the continent, such as Heinrich Khunrath, Andreas Haselmayer, Johannes Bureus and Johannes Hartman. A set of books in the Copenhagen Royal library stemming from the Rosicrucian collector Carl Widemann has the Monas painted on their backs. Add it to your library for further study! Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 Dear Claude Gagnon, Good to hear from you. You wrote: > My comparison of the two latin retroversions (Stockholm and > Vatican) will be available in a > few months when it will be published in Paris. I have already > made the corrections on the galleys. I can't go faster. I just want to add Kjell Lekeby's examples from his text - that is a lavish presentation copy with interesting illustrations not just a Latin translation for the sake of comprehension. Lekeby points out in addition to the former example I gave in the previous posting that Flamel describes how he made his second projection: "je la fit avec la pierre rouge sur semblable qualité de mercure" the Latin text uses the word quantitatem (quantitas) which in the french text should have become quantité. the word quality in this context does not make sense - a translator's error? We are eager to hear your arguments to take account of Lekeby's findings. In any case you have shown Beroalde de Verville's important alchemical activity and I now wonder about the theories that his 700 page "Histoire veritable ou le voyage des princes fortunez" (Paris 1610) influenced Johann Valentin Andreae's Chemical Wedding. Beroalde also translated parts of the Hypnerotomachia Poliphili (Paris 1601) which now in Joscelyn Goodwin's English translation appears to me to bear a clear relation to the Wedding. (Especially the search for the Venus fountain). What does the Flamel-Beroalde connection which you have unquestionably shown amount to? Was Beroalde a fountainhead of allegorical alchemy or did he (which one still would want to be true) draw upon a tradition stemming from Flamel (and not to forget, Perenelle). Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: José Rodríguez Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 Gleb Butuzov wrote: >If I understand you correctly, there was a historical person >Nicolas Flamel, but he actually was not involved with alchemy. >Currently I'm preparing a Russian translation of Flamel's works >for publication, and I would kindly ask you to specify this thesis >more in detail if possible, and/or refer to some bibliografical >material if such exists. --------------------------------- Dear Gleb: Really, he was a historical person but not involved with alchemy. That is the resolution of the most recent and complete research in the historical development of alchemy and Nicolas Flamel. At the present there are no scholars in a position to confirm (with factual data) about Flamel as an alchemist. I found some mistaken proofs in "esoterical" studies or journals. For example: - "La Tourbe des Philosophes. Revue d'Études alchimiques", nº 38-39, 1995, pp. 85-90. (They say that Pierre Vicot spoke about Flamel in "Le Grand Olimpe" and they explain that it's an early source. Probably they have faith in Fulcanelli's notes on Vicot as a priest living in the 15th century. However, Didier Kahn gives evidence that Vicot and "Le Grand Olimpe" should be placed in the 16th century, so it is not an early testimony.) The historical and philological facts indicate that his works on alchemy are pseudoepigraphical examples. An early book that tackles this problem was: - VILLAIN (Abbé), "Histoire critique de Nicolas Flamel, et de Pernelle sa femme; recueillie d'actes anciens qui justifient l'origine et la médiocrité de leur fortune contre les imputations des Alchimistes, on y a joint le Testament de Pernelle. Par M. L.V", P., G. Desprez, 1761,in 12, XII-403 pp.-2ff. ill. Today, I think Claude Gagnon is the most well-documented scholar on the "Livre des Figures Hiéroglyphiques". He defended a Ph.D. in the University of Montreal concerning this late Flamel's work: - CLAUDE GAGNON, (1977), "Analyse archeologique du Livre des Figures attribue a Nicolas Flamel", Ph.D. University of Montreal. You can find a printed edition in: - CLAUDE GAGNON, (1977), "Description du Livre des Figures Hiéroglyphiques attribué à Nicolas Flamel", Ed. de l'Aurore, Montréal. Other important references that you should check are: - CLAUDE GAGNON, "Rapport sur l'attribution du Livre des Figures Hieroglyphiques attribue a Nicolas Flamel", Postdoctoral research in Paris from 1973 to 1988 at the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, under the direction of Guy Beaujouan. - CLAUDE GAGNON, (1995), "Le Livre d'Abraham le Juif ou l'influence de l'impossible", in Didier Kahn et Sylvain Matton (eds.), «Alchimie: art, histoire et mythes», pp.497-506. You can find complete critical edition of the "Livre des Figures Hiéroglyphiques" in: - CLAUDE GAGNON, (1994), "Nicolas Flamel sous investigation : suivi de l'edition annote du Livre des figures hieroglyphiques", Le Loup de Gouttiere, Quebec. I send you the summary of this book: Part I (Investigation sur un faux) Introduction p. 6- Pierre Arnauld sieur de la Chevallerie poictevin, traducteur introuvable p. 12- Barthelemy Mercier de Saint-Leger, bibliothecaire erudite p. 26- Francois Beroalde de Verville, ecrivain cabaliste p. 50- Alchimie et cabale dans l'oeuvre de Beroalde p. 52- Le "Recueil steganographique" et l'avertissmemet "Aux beaux esprits qui arresteront leurs yeux" p. 54- Le voyage des "Princes fortunez" p. 65- Le cas du "Moyen de parvenir" p. 71- Petrus Perna, imprimeur a Bale p. 88- Nicolas Flamel, paroissien de Saint-Jacques-la-Boucherie a Paris p. 109- Le testament p. 110- L'arche p. 125- Le "Livre d'Abraham le juif" p. 156- Conclusion p. 172- Part II (Edition annotee du "Livre des figures hieroglyphiques) Notes sur les editions anterieures p. 182- Editions annotee p. 187- Appendices p. 269- Bibliographie p. 277- Concerning other texts on alchemy ("Musique de Flamel", "Sommaire philosophique", "Livre des Laveures", "Secrets de Nicolas Flamel", "Voie de Flamel ou d'Almasatus", "Le Grand Esclaircissement de la Pierre Philosophale...", "Désir désire", etc.) we can say that all these are later attributions. Some articles on this question: - R. HALLEUX, (1983), "Le mythe de Nicolas Flamel ou les mecanismes de la pseudepigraphie alchimique", en «Archives internationales d'histoire des sciences», 33, pp. 234-255. - J. REBOTIER, (1995), "La Musique de Flamel", in Didier Kahn et Sylvain Matton (eds.), «Alchimie: art, histoire et mythes», pp.507-545. - N. WILKINS, (1993), "Nicolas Flamel. Des livres et de l'or", Éditions Imago, Paris. I think the first handwritten manuscript document that brings into connection "alchemy" and "Flamel" is a short text dated at the end of the 15th century. It was entitled: "Le livre de Flamel". You can find an excellent french edition with a lot of notices about the origin the myth of Flamel as an alchemist in: - DIDIER KAHN, (1996), "Le livre de Flamel", in «Chrysopoeia», t. V, pp. 387-430. I hope this is of some help, José Rodríguez Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Adam McLean Date: 14 Oct 2000 A few people may say - how unfair for scholars to attack the established figure of Flamel and strip the alchemy from him. So let us remind ourselves of why such a scholarly investigation is necessary. It is vitally important if we are to understand the nature of alchemy and the transmission of its ideas, that we have a correct historical sequencing for the main figures and key works, in order that we can place a work in its proper context. Flamel has been a problem for the correct sequencing for some time. He is supposed to have been active during the late 14th century and the book of Abraham the Jew which he supposedly discovered must have been earlier than this. Flamel's 'Exposition of the hieroglyphicall figures' appears now to be a product of the late 16th or early years of the 17th century, and should be read within that context. The book of the hieroglyphic figures was not an influence on the 'Aurora consurgens', the 'Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit', or even the 'Splendor Solis, but was devised a century or more later. Unless one understands this, one may draw conclusions and connections that, being based on wrong information, will only lead to an erroneous understanding of the flow of alchemical ideas and iconography. The book of the hieroglyphic figures was not based on an ancient work 'The book of Abraham the Jew' . If we were to accept this as a real 14th century (or earlier) work, we would have to account for the existence of a quite sophisticated tradition of Jewish alchemy from this period - something that is not borne out by the historical record. This does not mean that we discount the importance of this work but rather that we have to read Flamel's account as it really is - an alchemical allegory - rather than a historical account. His discovery, investigation and journeying to find the key to this book, was intended by the late 16th century writer as an allegory. If we do not read it in this way we miss the point of the book entirely. Far from destroying the work, this scholarly investigation into the true nature of Flamel and his supposed writings, merely serves to bring us into a proper relationship to it as a profound and important alchemical allegory. Adam McLean Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 From: ME Warlick Thanks to Jose and others for the bibliography on the Flamel question. While I agree that the construction of Flamel as an alchemist is late, I'm still fascinated by the historical figure and his wife Perenelle (or Pernelle, however you'd like to spell it). The sculptural works connected to this couple are not alchemical, but they do still exist, including Flamel's grave marker in the Cluny Museum and a house traditionally associated with them on the rue Montmorency. This house is one of the oldest preserved structures in Paris and its facade contains relief sculptures of a man, a woman reading a book beside a wattle fence, and several angels, details stylistically similar to those found on Flamel's arch, reproduced in the later books. Nearby is the Church of St. Merri, built in the early 16th century and decorated with dragons or salamanders (a la Francois I). On the right portal there are two small heads on either side of the lowest archivolt, a man holding a small bag (some see a bag of money here, although he could just as well be playing a bagpipe) and woman coifed in a medieval headdress. Today's alchemical tours of Paris identify this couple as Nicolas and Perenelle, and while I'm sure there are no documents to support this, it could be true as they are so closely associated with this quartier of Paris. Also on this church's facade is a statue of St. James, and another small relief of a man holding a shield containing three scallop shells, symbols, of course, of the pilgrimage to St. Jacques da Compostela. It was from this section of Paris that the pilgrims were blessed before leaving on their journeys, at the Church of St. Jacques de la Boucherie (this was the butcher's section of Paris, and they built this church because they were not allowed in others). The Tour St. Jacques, so loved by the surrealists, is all that remains of this structure after the revolution and it was here in the cemetary that Flamel's hieroglyphs were supposedly carved. Surely Flamel's trip to Spain derives from all these connections to the St. Jacques pilgrimages and his special part of Paris. Villain supposedly found documents relating to a law suit brought by Perenelle's sister Isabel, concerning Nicolas's appropriation of her sizeable fortune after her death. These documents can no longer be found, and Villain too may have been simply fabricating his research, although it is not beyond the realm of possibilities these records were also lost or destroyed in the revolution. If true, Perenelle was indeed a wealthy widow and it was her money that was used to support their philanthropic efforts. What interests me is how this historical couple, connected to the building of churches and hospitals, transformed into France's most famous alchemists, and somewhere in the architectural records of those two missing centuries some additional clues might be found. M.E. Warlick Subject: ACADEMY : Beroalde de Verville Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 From: Fenella Lavender The frontispiece of 'Le Tableau des Riches Inventions' includes a dismembered lion. If you draw a line through the lion's face at a certain angle it reveals the face of a man. Has this face ever been identified - is it a portrait of anybody in particular? Kind regards Fenella Lavender Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 From: ME Warlick Let me amend my last message that Flamel's arch was formerly at the cemetery of the Church of the Innocents, not at St. Jacques, although this church was also close by. Obviously not a good idea to write a response at 6 in the morning! M.E. Warlick Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Penny Bayer Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 Dear ME Warlick and all, I am also interested in whether Perenelle Flamel was actually an alchemist. Certainly it is possible that a legend concerning Perenelle as alchemist was current in the 15th century. A 15th century manuscript from John Dee's library records a relationship between a Maria and Petronnlle, Experimenta cum Sole. (Oxford: Corpus Christi 277, f. 28v). In her entry on this manuscript Dorothea Waley Singer has noted, incorrectly, that Petronella was the name of the wife of Nicholas Flamel. With only one digit significantly different (and a close similarity of 'r'and 't' in the hand) it is however an interesting possibility that the name of Flamel's wife entered alchemical legend before the publication of Nicholas' Le Livre des Figures Hieroglyphiques . The Maria in the text undoubtedly refers to Maria the Hebrew (or, to the Renaissance, Maria Prophetissa), whose legend as the mother of alchemy has been fully documented by Raphael Patai. Several women alchemists from the Graeco-Egyptian period have been associated with Maria - Theosobeia, Isis, Paphnutia - but I am not aware of any Petronella from this early period. The dating of this manuscript in the 15th century, the century in which Nicholas died does support the view that Perrenelle was entering legend as an alchemist on her own account, and as one of the calibre to work with Maria herself. The short receipt in Maria and Petronnlle, Experimenta cum Sole makes use of salt, a golden water, a distillation process, and finally "coagula Reginam" , a coagulation of salts from the "Queen" through a drying process. The two women are thus being associated with an aspect of alchemy associated with the mythology of the Luna Queen. Whilst in the Flamel legend Perrenelle is closely defined through her relationship to her husband, in this earlier reference she is located in relation to a tradition of female alchemists who worked together. Penny Bayer Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 From: Deborah E. Harkness Susanna Åkerman wrote: >Brian Vickers in a review of Frances Yates called the Monas the >most obscure work written by an Englishman and he doubted >that it was cited by even ten readers during the Renaissance. It would be interesting to see how many of us have run into references to the Monas by other 16th-early 17th century alchemists and natural philosophers to see if we can empirically prove Vickers wrong. In a letter to his nephew, for example, Abraham Ortelius asks whether Dee has printed anything new on the Monas. Any other insights? Deb Harkness Subject: ACADEMY : Coloured robes and alchemy From: Robert Vanloo Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 I do not know if this has already been mentioned here, but there is an interesting relationship between the Knights' Mantles of the Order of the Golden Fleece, and the alchemical process. Elias Ashmole describes their Mantles as follows : "For their Habit Three different Mantles were ordain'd them at the grand Solemnity ; the first Day, of Scarlet Cloth, richly embroidered about the Lower End, with Flints struck into Sparks of Fire and Fleeces, with Chaperons of the same ; and the same Day, after Dinner, to proceed to Vespers in Mantles of Black, and of the Colour of Chaperons ; the Day following they were to hear Mass habited as themselves thought fit : but Duke Charles aforesaid prescribed them Mantles of White Damask for that Day's Ceremony, and changed their Cloth Mantles into Velvet. The great Collar is composed of double Fusils, placed Back to Back, Two and Two together, in form of the Letter B representing it both Ways, to signify Bourgoigne. And these Fusils are interwoven with Flint-stones (in reference to the Arms of' the ancient Kings of Bourgoigne) seeming to strike Fire, and Sparkles of Fire between them, the Device of the Founder, at the End whereof hung the Resemblance of a Golden Fleece, enamelled proper. To the Flint paradine ascribes the Motto, Ante ferit quam Flamma micet ; and to the Fleece, Pretium non vile laboris. The Jewel is commonly worn in a double Chainet or Males of Gold, linked together at convenient Distance, between which runs a small Red Ribbon, or otherwise it is worn in a Red Ribbon alone." ("The History of the Most Noble Order of the Garter & the Several Orders of Knighthood in Europe", 1715, p. 67 - Kessinger reprint) Robert Vanloo Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Gleb Butuzov Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 I would like to thank Jose Rodriguez, Claude Gagnon and everybody who sent very interesting information concerning identity of Flamel's works. I would be also much grateful if someone could help me to identify some strange source, mentioned in the "Les Figures Hieroglyfiques" (Introduction): ...Roi Hercule, traitant de couleurs de la pierre intitulée l'iris... Thank you and best regards. Gleb. Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Gleb Butuzov Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 Further to the discussion concerning the period of the creation of the "Hieroglyphic Figures", I found out that I was inattentive enough to miss the name Hali Aberagel, arabian astrologer, mentioned in Chapter V. According to Flamel himself, he did not know either Greek, or any semitic language, but the first latin translation of the above author appeared just in 1550 (Albohazen Haly filii Abenragel, scriptoris Arabici, de judiciis astrorum libri octo, etc. Basiliae, 1550); the historical Flamel could scarcely have heard about him. Best wishes. Gleb. Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy - Haly Abenragel Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 From: Sophie Page This is slightly off the topic of alchemy and I do not wish to assert this in any way as proof of the historical and alchemical Flamels coinciding but the appearance of the name 'Haly Abenragel' is not by itself proof of a later date. It depends on what the citation refers to. I have a studied a fifteenth-century (London) astrologer's notebook in detail and the astrologer makes a number of references to 'haly abenragel' although in this case he is erroneously referring to 'Ali Ibn Ridwan the commentator on Ptolemy, and not to 'Ali Ibn Rijal (i.e. Haly Abenragel, the Maghrib astrologer of the eleventh century). However, in my notes on this subject (written some time ago) I find that I have written that the latter's text was translated into Latin and equally well-known. Can anyone else confirm or refute the circulation of an astrological text by 'Ali Ibn Rijal' in Latin before 1500? (Perhaps Tester's History of Astrology would have this information but I don't have it to hand). Sophie Page Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy - Hercules From: Claude Gagnon Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 To Gleb, I have done a great deal of work trying to trace that book which does not seem to have ever existed. Even the incipit given in the pseudo-Flamel book is nowhere in the Catalogue of incipits of mediaeval texts compiled by Pearl Kibre. However, Beroalde speaks, in one of his writings, of the Iris which seems to be one of his topics. I have tried to summarise the myth of Hercules in the French renaissance in my book; the bibliography of studies on Hercules in the Renaissance is very substantial. Claude Gagnon Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy - Haly Abenragel From: D Mindon Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 I believe there was an earlier translation of Albenragel. See mention in Seznec and in the works by Snellen concerning Flamen and tractatus Paulus Grillandus. Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership From: Jan Backlund Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 > In a letter to his nephew, for example, Abraham Ortelius asks whether > Dee has printed anything new on the Monas. This was interesting; I wasn't aware of this reference to the Monas by Abraham Ortelius. From where is it? I didn't note it in Abrahami Ortelii _ Epistulae, (J. H. Hessels, ed. Osnabrück: Otto Zeller, 1969), nor in "Album amicorum" (De Gulden Passer 1967-1968), but I have probably missed it. I would be very happy for the reference, as I have been writing of a possible reception by Pieter Bruegel the Elder of Dee as he was in Antwerp. Jan Bäcklund Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 From: Deborah E. Harkness Jan: Good to hear from you! I mistakenly typed in Ortelius, because it was the Ortelius correspondence, but the person in question is actually Johannes Radermacher, who wrote to James Cole (Ortelius's nephew) regarding the Monas, and his discussions with Dee in the Birckmann's bookshop. (Ortelius Correspondence, #334 (7 January 1604), pp. 787-791. In this letter Radermacher thanks Cole for his reports of John Dee, whom Radermacher recalls speaking to on a regular basis at the Birckmann's bookshop in London some forty years ago. Radermacher regrets that he lacked the time then to speak to Dee about his philosophical interests, and asks Cole if he can procure the key to Dee's Monas Hieroglyphica (Antwerp, 1564). I would be interested to talk more with you about Brueghel. I've written on the James Cole network of natural philosophers (Dutch, English) in Elizabethan London and their ties to Dee and other important figures in Europe (Dutch, Italian, German, etc.). I know that the Coles had connections to Brueghel (and Marcus Gheerhaerts and other artists) so it wouldn't surprise me at all that Brueghel somehow knew Dee. Please contact me off-list if you want to swap stories! Deb Harkness Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Claude Gagnon Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 Dear Susanna Akerman, I am pleased that you have received my answer and that you have replied to it. As I have allready explained, I do not have my material with me in Paris, neither my paper, under print, in which I discuss mr. Lekeby's arguments. But for the version is different and has if I remember, to the French version. In Paris, I am searching for more exemplars of my books. I want to buy one for Mr. McLean (to whom I promised it) and will be glad to offer you one if I can find two of them at the distributor (La Table d'Emeraude) which does not have a library any more. Mr. Lekeby has already an examplar of it. Regarding the link between Beroalde and alchemy I will answer you substantially when I will be back next week. Best regards, Claude Gagnon In a Paris under a real sky shower this morning P.S. I did not forget that it is you who have pointed to me the existence of the Vatican version and I have expressed my gratitude toward you in my paper for that information. Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership From: Jan Backlund Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 Dear Deborah, Thank you for your interesting reply, which raises some new questions: > Good to hear from you! I mistakenly typed in Ortelius, because > it was the Ortelius correspondence, but the person in question > is actually Johannes Radermacher, who wrote to James Cole > (Ortelius's nephew) regarding the Monas, and his discussions > with Dee in the Birckmann's bookshop. (Ortelius Correspondence, > #334 (7 January 1604), pp. 787-791. Oh, what a pity, otherwise it could have proved the following problem: As far as I am aware, there are no conclusive evidence that Dee and Ortelius ever met before the publication of Ortelius' Theatrum Orbis Terrarum in 1570, in spite of their many common acquaintances. In a letter from Dee to Ortelius, dated at Mortlake, 16 January 1577 (which to my knowledge is the only extant evidence of their friendship together with Dee's entry in Ortelius' Album amicorum later in 1577 when Ortelius visited Dee at Mortlake), in which -- as you probably know -- Dee thanks Ortelius "for the kindness with which you received me, when I came to see your library some years ago" (Gratiasque tibi habere ingentes ob Candorem illum tuum, et humanitatis officia, quibus me exceperis, Bibliothecam tuam dum ante aliquot annos inviserem _), Abrahami Ortelii _ Epistulae, J. H. Hessels, 23-24. This can either refer to the journey Dee made to Lorrain and Paris in 1571, on which it may be assumed that he passed Antwerp, if not, it almost must refer to a meeting when Dee was in Antwerp for to prepare the printing of the Monas in 1563-64 (since there are no records of Dee visiting Antwerp between those years). I am rather puzzled by the great number of common acquaintances of Ortelius and Dee from 1550 onwards and the lack of documents confirming that they knew each other (which I think they must have done, taken into account the very cordial tone of the letter and the entry in Ortelius Album amicorum). > In this letter Radermacher thanks Cole for his reports of John Dee, > whom Radermacher recalls speaking to on a regular basis at > the Birckmann's bookshop in London some forty years ago. > Radermacher regrets that he lacked the time then to speak to > Dee about his philosophical interests, and asks Cole if he can > procure the key to Dee's Monas Hieroglyphica (Antwerp, 1564). I know nothing about this James Cole (or Jacques Coole as he is called by the editor of the Album Amicorum), so I would be very grateful for some biographical notes... (unfortunately I have no copy of the letter you referred to). As far as I remember a great part of Ortelius friends fled to England -- of religious reasons exclusively I think -- during the last quarter of the 16th century, and I guess this must have been the case with Cole also. Radermacher's talks "on a regular basis" with Dee in Birckmann's shop must have been after 1567, as he, according to editor of Album amicorum, stayed in Antwerp until 1567 (when the duke of Alba arrived and off to London was he); and I suppose that Cole already was in England by that time (?). The question is, and the interesting point for me at least, is what kind of (if any) reception there was in the Netherlands of Dee's Monas (and the reception of Dee as a person) in the Netherlands? I have not run across any reference before the one you mentioned from 1604 (but again, I didn't know of that either...). > I would be interested to talk more with you about Brueghel. I've > written on the James Cole network of natural philosophers > (Dutch, English) in Elizabethan London and their ties to Dee and > other important figures in Europe (Dutch, Italian, German, etc.). > I know that the Coles had connections to Brueghel (and Marcus > Gheerhaerts and other artists) so it wouldn't surprise me at all > that Brueghel somehow knew Dee. You surprise me still: Cole had connections to Bruegel! Even if you mean Pieter II Breughel or Jan I Brueghel it is still more than I know, and this would indeed be of great interest. I certainly have to read your article, so I would be very grateful if you could give me the reference of it? The arguments in my article (which was intended for Cauda pavonis, but it became too long, so now I don't know) is that Bruegel's two engravings from 1565, "Saint James and the Magician Hermogenes" and "The Fall of the Magician", engraved by Pieter van der Heyden (the brother of Caspar van der Heyden, or Gaspar à Mirica as he is called in the Dee-literature) are satirical documents of a Dee-reception as magician (evoking the "magical" stagecraft Dee produced for the Aristophanes play in Cambridge) and the publication of Monas in Antwerp the year before (and the same year as Bruegel made the drawings for the prints). This argument is however based on a series of inductions and a rather adventurous reading of the two prints and the preparatory drawing by Bruegel, but without any documented evidence. I will be happy to send it to you, and would very much like comments, if you mail me: Best regards, Jan Bäcklund Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 Dear Claude Gagnon, you wrote: "But for the version is different and has if I remember, to the French version." I want to reinstate Lekeby's point that aequalitate or esgalité does not make sense in its alchemical context, while qualitate does. Is the Vatican copy a translation of the French and Lekeby's copy perhaps the original even if it is shorter than the Vatican version? This does not prove that that the historical Flamel was an alchemist but perhaps that there was a Latin original to Beroalde's French text. Or do you have other ideas? I wrote earlier that: "Lekeby has informed Gagnon that there is a translation of the word qualitate to egalité in the French 1612 edition which does not make sense: qu'elle/la pierre/ est accomplie en toute droicture et esgalité" which in the Latin is "eum iam esse perfectum in omni rectitudine et qualitate" which makes sense! (Is it the original?) How can this word esgalité be understood? Is it related to droicture ? Is not qualitate better? See also the second example earlier mentioned: Flamel describes how he made his second projection: "je la fit avec la pierre rouge sur semblable qualité de mercure" the Latin text uses the word quantitatem (quantitas) which in the French text should have become quantité. the word quality in this context does not make sense - a translator's error? Here is a second nonsensical idea in the French. How do you explain it? Best wishes on your journey to Canada, Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership From: Chris Pickering Date: 19 Oct 2000 Hello Jan Your article on the two Bruegel engravings as possible references to John Dee's popular reputation as a magician sounds very interesting, despite your admission that there is little or no external evidence. I'm sure that there are others who feel the same. If you are looking for a forum to publish this work, how about Adam's website ? In any case, I would love a draft copy in return for any help I can give you. Chris Pickering Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership From: Chris Pickering Date: 19 Oct 2000 >It would be interesting to see how many of us have run into references >to the Monas by other 16th-early 17th century alchemists and natural >philosophers to see if we can empirically prove Vickers wrong. Here goes:- 1) Queen Elizabeth herself verbally defended the book from criticism, apparently soon after publication, and later discussed the contents with Dee, as he recorded. She was no alchemist, but certainly meets Vickers "readers" 2) Can we only cite surviving documents ? Dees alchemical letter of 1568 to John Gwynn on "One" and "Monas" suggests that Gwynn may have mentioned the same in writing. 3) Dee believed that Gerhard Dorn, in 'Chymisticum Artificium Naturae' (1568), had plagiarised from his book. 4) In 1577 William Herbert of St Julians sent Dee his notes upon the book, although these notes do not survive. 5) Petrus Bongus names and paraphrases MH in 'Mysticae Numerorum Significationis Liber' (1585) 6) The story from the 1580s of Pucci (I believe) claiming that he, and not Dee, wrote Monas Hieroglyphica is not recorded in writing (as far as I know) until later by Ashmole and Lilly. 7) Ralph Rabbards edition of Ripleys 'The Compound of Alchymy' (1591) praises Dees book as English alchemy 8) Does the 1591 edition count - Weschel and Fischer could hardly do more that reprint the book 9) If so, the 1602 reprint in 'Theatrum Chemicum' can also be added. 10) Libavius criticised a passage from MH in 'Tractatus Duo Physici' (1594) 11) Thomas Tymme, 1602 or later, wrote additions to an uncompleted or lost English translation. 12) In 'De Sophismatum Praestigiis Cavendis Admonitio' (published in 1604 but compiled from earlier efforts), Thomas Oliver, who was in contact with Dee, adapted an illustration from the end of MH for his own title page 13) There is the 1604 Radermacher letter noted previously 14) Ben Jonson parodies MH in 'The Alchemist' (1610), although it is not specifically named. 15) The monad hieroglyph famously appears in 'The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosencruetz' (1616). 16) It is also to be found in Khunraths 'Ampitheatrum' (1602 and later, but not the 1595 edition !) as is a reference to a passage in Dees text. 17) It is said to appear in a 1644 engraved portrait of Hunyades the Elder. 18) And Behmens 'Clavis' (London 1647) 19) And Kirchers 'Obeliscus Pamphilius' (Rome 1650) These are the only examples within the period specified above that come easily to hand. I suspect that there are more examples buried in my notes, or that other members of this list have encountered. Chris Pickering Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 Chris Pickering wrote: >2) Can we only cite surviving documents ? Dees alchemical >letter of 1568 to John Gwynn on "One" and "Monas" suggests >that Gwynn may have mentioned the same in writing. There is an English translation of the Sefer-ha Raziel in the British library MS Sloane 3846 prefaced by an invokation of one John Gwynne of Llaudloys in the county of Monmouth dated 2 November 1564 which draws a monas upside down in the margin at the text f. 137v "the figure that is Mars that he should rest and not fight in the reign of that sign Arietis" A letter by Gwynne dated 1670 is appended. >3) Dee believed that Gerhard Dorn, in 'Chymisticum Artificium >Naturae' (1568), had plagiarised from his book". In Gerard Dorn's "La Monarchie du ternaire en union contre la monomachie du binaire en confusion" s.l. 1577 there is a geometric construction (Kite like) inspired by Dee as judged by Jean Pierre Brasch in the modern Gutenberg reprint of 1981. The verse accompaning says: "Premiere, en subiection Nous mit du maudit Binaire, Mais la tres saincte Unité Par le moyen du Ternaire Nous remit en liberté. C'est la fontaine du vie Qui nous peut rendre santé, Quand Binaire par envie la maladie a planté Que cherchons nous en Quatre, L'enfant de Deux & le fruict, Autre que nous esbatre En tout ce qui nous destruit." A Pythagorean musing à la Dee. Also, Francois Secret in his "Tycho Brahe et l'alchimie" Bibliothèque d'humanisme et renaissance 1975 pp. 512-516 speaks of how Tycho and Christoph Rothman discuss a "hieroglyph" in connection with the seven planets and the seven metals. Apparently the symbol is used and discussed while there are few citations of Dee´s text, but then transmissiion and the notoriety of a text like the Monas cannot be judged by scholarly commentary as much of widespread use. Andreae has been judged only to have seen the monas in Khunrath since he does not refer to the geometric theorems of Dee's book. Thus Dee's influence on Andreae has been judged slight (by Edighoffer at one point) ! I think this is wrong. And am glad to see all your examples, but perhaps Vickers would not count them as citations in the proper sense. His denial is that the Monas is a "famous" book during the Renaissance. Clearly it was notorious. Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 Date: Penny Bayer Christopher Taylour, who Jan Backlund has associated with the Dee-Kelley circle, discusses the Monas in a treatise on alchemy addressed to a noblewoman now at Oxford: Bodleian Library, Ashmole MS 1392.He describes the Elixir as "Monas, yt is the number of One, Chaos, Hylus, the Green Lyon" and goes on to discuss the numbers between one and ten, the last being Denarium "ye secrett mystery of perfeccion". No specific mention of John Dee, though. Penny Bayer Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Stanislas Klossowski de Rola Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000: Dear Susanna, Beware of ancient French! Spellings and forms have changed considerably in meaning and ancient alchemical texts are exceedingly loose in translation. I could give you numerous examples. As far as "esgalité" is concerned. It looks to me as a misreading of "esqualité" "es" or "és" being found in use in a number of early manuscript and printed texts. Among the latter I am currently reading "Traicte du Feu et du Sel Excellent et Rare Opuscule du Sieur Blaise Vigenere Bourbonnois, trouvé parmy ses papiers apres son decès"... Paris 1622 One reads for instance (about fire) on p.26: "Comme on peut voir és choses bruslées, converties en cendres..." Also on page 27: L'experiment s'en peut veoir és eaux forts qui sont toutes composées de sels mineraux..." Sincerely, Stanislas Klossowski de Rola Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Gleb Butuzov Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 I would like to thank everybody who helped me with precious information about Flamel, especially Claude Gagnon. Currently I'm working over the draft translation of "Le Livere des Laveures", and I cannot find anything about the vessel which Flamel calls "condamphore". Could anybody help me with any information? Thank you and best regards. Gleb. Subject: ACADEMY : Keren Happuch From: Adam McLean Date: 23 Oct 2000 I wonder if anyone can remind me of the meaning of the phrase "Keren Happuch". I came across this some years ago in the titles of some German alchemical books and at that time managed to find a meaning for the phrase. However, my memory has let me down and I cannot now recall the meaning of the words. I seem to remember it was derived from Hebrew and was a simple alchemical idea. Adam McLean Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership From: Jan Backlund Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 Dear Chris Pickering and the forum: > 19) And Kirchers 'Obeliscus Pamphilius' (Rome 1650) Some years ago I had a look in Obeliscus Pamphilius (I don't however remember the reference to Dee in this, but Kircher used the Monas-symbol extensively in the third volume of his Oedipus Aegyptiacus. ... (Rom: Vitalis Mascardi, 1652-1654). But as Kircher's interpretation of lchemy in Egyptian terms (or interpretation of the hieroglyphs in alchemical terms) is a plagiarism of Michael Maiers Arcana Arcanissima (s.d.n.l.; Oppenheim 1614?) and Symbola Aureæ Mensæ (Frankfurt a.M.: Luca Jennis, 1617), his reading of "Dee's Monas" in the same (third) book's fourth chapter (especially pp. 399-401, and 406-17), is a similar blatant exemple of plagiarism. Without ever mentioning Dee's name or the title "Monas", Kircher almost copies the text of Dee verbatim. Well, I do exaggerate, but still, the interpretation of the symbols, the proportions of the cross etc. are entirely from the Monas Hieroglyphica. Maybe for to hide his source, maybe for to give it a more appropriate label, Kircher labels the "monas hieroglyphica" "Crux hermetica" instead. The reason for his renaming of the symbol is probably because he (as Maier before him) wanted to prove that the antiquity of alchemy was steming from Egyptian times and from Hermes Trismegistos (this was the debate on the antiquity of Corpus Hermeticum going on between Casaubon and other philological minded persons against the alchemical claim of Aegypto-mosaic antiquity defended by Michael Maier and others from early 17th century onwards). Thus the true inventor of the Monas-symbol must have been Hermes Trismegistos, and not John Dee (implicitly he is to be regarded as a later user or interpreter of an already existing "hermetic cross" -- On the other hand, Dee might have agreed with this reasoning). In volume III, caput IV ("De Cruce Hermetica, quam nos passim in hoc Opere Crucem ansatam appelamus, eiusque arcana significatione in opere Hermetico") Kircher writes: Hermes Trismegistus, vt primus literarum siue inuentor, siue inuentarum iam instaurator, ita characterum Hieroglyphicorum institutor, vt quae in Mundo occultissima latent, mirifico à se excogitato symbolo exprimeret, omnia vnico charactere, quam & Crucem Hermeticam appellant ..." (p. 399). That is, shortly put: Hermes is inventor of the letters and instaurator of the hermetic characters as well, behind which a secret world dwells and which is expressed in one sole character which is called the hermetical cross. Thus John Dee could impossible be the inventor of Monas, and thus he cannot deserve any "credit" for it. Nor for the drawing given on p. 400. This wood-cut is identical with the wood-cut published on p. 24 in the original editoin of Dee's Monas (only the explanatory letters are different). The effect this use of the Monas-symbol in its new context as the most antique hermetical symbol (and not a hermetico- philosophical idea proposed by a certain John Dee) is interesting. Soon after the publication of Kirchers Oedipus Aegyptiacus, the first "History of Alchemy" was published by Olaus Borrichus (De ortu & progressu chemiae dissertatio, Hafniae: Petrus Haubold, 1668, reprinted, significantly, as the first tract in the first volume of Manget's anthology 1702). Olaus Borrichus repeats Maier's and Kircher's arguments of the antiquity of alchemy. Borrichus obviously had an idea from were Kircher had his source for the "Cruce Hermetice", but he was sufficiently ignorant to call the Monas hieroglyphica for "Crux Isiaca" and the author for "Franc[iscus] Deé Londinensis" (De Ortu et Progressu, p. 32). If Kircher and Olaus Borrichus could be called a representative readership of alchemical literature during the latter half of the 17th century (which I think they could), then it seems that Dee (and the term "Monas Hieroglyphica") by that time already was forgotten, but that the symbol gained a life of its own under different names. With this I wouldn't say that there weren't any significant readership and reception of Dee and the Monas earlier. An inquiry in the question of the early reception could -- I believe -- be very illuminating. On the other hand, the case with Kircher, Borrichus and their contemporaries, seems to suggest that the symbol soon (well, a century after the publication) lived its own life outside the thought of Dee and independently of the term "monas hieroglyphica". Jan Bäcklund Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 From: Deborah E. Harkness Dear List, Well, we've definitely proven that more than 10 people read the Monas!! Deb Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 Dear Stanislas Klossowski de Rola, Is the French ès not a short cut for "en les" such as in Licensié ès lettres and how would this make sense in esqualité qu'elle/la pierre/ est accomplie en toute droicture et esgalité" would it simply mean en toute les qualités Respects from Kjell Lekeby, with Susanna at the typepad Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership From: Jan Backlund Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 Dear Penny and the Forum, > Christopher Taylour, who Jan Backlund has associated with > the Dee-Kelley circle, discusses the Monas in a treatise on > alchemy addressed to a noblewoman now at Oxford: Bodleian > Library, Ashmole MS 1392.He describes the Elixir as "Monas, > yt is the number of One, Chaos, Hylus, the Green Lyon" and > goes on to discuss the numbers between one and ten, the > last being Denarium "ye secrett mystery of perfeccion". > No specific mention of John Dee, though. When you mention it. As you know the monas-figure also is drawn, together with a signature "Liber Christopheri Taylour", with a contemporary hand on the spine on Old Royal Coll. 240 fol. in the Royal Library in Copenhagen. This MS is a compilation of alchemical tracts and written between 1550 and 1600, and bound together immediately after 1600. This is not the place to go through all arguments, but let me just conclude that this MS is closely linked, with regards to provenance and content, to some other MS in Copenhagen, among them Old Royal Coll. 245 fol., which curiously is marked with the same "flower signs" with which John Dee used to mark the margins in his books (cf. Roberts/Watson). The contents of the latter MS (245) is mainly of Dutch origin (as the latest tracts in 240 fol a re tracts by Isaac Hollandus). I mention this on the background of Deborah Harkness' comment the 16th october (discussing the reception of the Monas by Cole and Ortelius, and maybe also Brueghel and Marcus II Gheeraerts). This possibility of a significant Netherlandish reception -- which, considering that it was printed in Antwerp, might not be that strange -- interests me. Old Royal Collection 245 fol. contains a considerable amount of references to Netherlandish alchemists (?) of which I have no more information. If someone in this forum has more information of any of them I would be very grateful: The whole MS. states that it is a copy of a text written by: Constantinus Loogenhage and contains references to the following Netherlandish (or maybe West German) persons: Mattheus Bornhen (on f. 11r) Dr. Willems Erastus (on ff. 2r and 8r) Fredberch (f. 8v: "Quinta Essentia Antis [?] scdm [sciendum, secundum?] Fredberch 1574.") Montanus (ff. 9r and 10r) Caspar Overlyn (on f. 9r. He is here called Caspar Berchschreiber (=mine clerk) Overlyn) Christian Rayth (fol. 6r) Andreae Germain (fol. 12r) and the following -- probably -- English persons: Albert Brydewell (fol. 13r) Robert Clerke (fol. 2r) Johannes Baptista Agneli (on ff. 2r and 12r. On fol. 1r we learn that he is a venetian alchemist working in London: "Messire Jo. Baptista Italien venetiatu, tot London treckt vuyt die minera vitrioli _") I don't know anything else about those persons, but I think that the biography of some of them might could cast some light on Dee's doings in the Netherlands 1548-50 or 1563/64 and/or the reception of Dee's Monas after 1564. Best regards, Jan B. Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' readership Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 From: Rafal T. Prinke Deborah E. Harkness wrote: > Well, we've definitely proven that more than 10 people > read the Monas!! Just to add an interesting detail, Susanna Åkerman once told me (some 2 years ago?) that the copy of Monas in Stockholm (or Uppsala?) is from the library of the Jesuit College in Poznan, Poland (that's where I live), taken there during the Swedish wars of the 17th c. So more Jesuits than just Kircher may well have read it. Best regards, Rafal Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 From: Deborah E. Harkness Dear List, Thank you to Jan for another mention of Agnelli, one of the most important and overlooked figures in English Alchemy. Though Italian, Agnelli (like Dee) lived in the parish of St. Helen's Bishopsgate in London and was active in the Frobisher assays. His alchemical work, Revelations of the Secret Spirit was published in London (in Italian) in the 1560s and an English translation in the 17th century. He was well-known to Elizabeth and I discuss Dee's interest in his alchemical cabala in John Dee's Conversations with Angels. Deb Harkness Subject: ACADEMY : Keren Happuch From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 Mats Eskhult, Professor of Hebrew at Uppsala, kindly gives the following message: At first, off the top of his head, he says that Qeren means horn or ray and Hippuch means to turn over or let flow. But then he has the following to say: "QEREN kan betyda "horn" och "stråle", PUCH kan vara "blyglans" som i antiken användes som ögonskugga.(Ha- uppfattar jag som bestämd artikel.) Motsvarande ord i arabiskan, som alltså syftar på ett fint pulver, kohl "det fina", har skridit vidare i betydelse därmed att det artikelförsett - al-kohl - gett upphov till alkohol". That is: PUCH can be a form of lead, blyglans or galena, used as eyeliner in antiquity while HA is the definite article - the corresponding word in Arabic that also means a fine powder, kohl "the fine" has developed into al-kohl or alcohol Adam, this seems right, but do you have the full sentence in which it occurrs? Susanna Akerman Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership From: Penny Bayer Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 Dear Jan and Forum, This does not specifically answer your points, but you may be interested in another link between Christopher Taylour and European alchemical circles. In his Treatise to a noble lady (Ashmole 1392) after discussing the meaning of the monas Taylour cites Dr Khunrath "who was my masters master". It is intriguing to consider who was the middle master - is it going too far to think it might be Dee who is known to have met Khunrath and shared his interest in alchemy-cabala? And did Khunrath have any Netherlandish connections? Penny Bayer Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Michael Brosse Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 Dear Susanna, "es" could be a short cut for "en les" but can also be reduced to "e" (with the accent, I cannot type it on my keyboard) as in egalite. Droicture became droiture which means the attitude of respect. Consequently I will go for egalite but could you give me one or 2 lines before and after to better understand the concept of this extract ? Michael Brosse Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Stanislas Klossowski de Rola Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 Dear Kjell and Susanna, Greetings. The meaning you seek in this context is quite simply: "elle est accomplie en toute droicture et en qualite" which indeed makes perfect sound sense. "és" can be translated in english as "in". Hence, it is accomplished in all righteousness and in quality. Another example from my current text, which you might find interesting, reads as follows: "CHACUN de ces trois mondes au reste a particulierement sa science, laquelle est double; l'une vulgaire & triviale; l'autre mystique et secrette. Le monde intelligible a notre Theologie, & la Caballe; le celeste, l'Astrologie, & la Magie; & l'elementaire, la Physiologie, & l'Alchimie qui revele par les resolutions & separations du feu, tous les plus cachez & occultes secrets de nature és trois genres descomposez : Compositionem enim rei aliquis scire non poterit, quidestructionem illius ignoraverit, dit Geber." op. cit. p. 51 All the very best, Stanislas Klossowski de Rola Subject: ACADEMY : Flamel and alchemy From: Susanna Åkerman Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 Michael Brosse, Here is the full passage from the edition of Poisson. It is from the last and ninth chapter where Flamel descripes the projection powder: La couleur rouge de laque de ce volant Lyon, semblable a ce pur et clair escarlatin du grain de la vrayement rouge grenade, demontre qu´elle est maintenant accomplie _en toute droicture et esgalité_. Qu´elle est comme un Lyon, devorant toute pure metallique, et la changeant en sa vraye substance, en vray et pur or, plus fin qu celuy des meilleures minieres. Susanna Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 From: Lauren Kassell Many thanks for all of the comments about the Monas readership, and especially Christopher Taylour. I know him as an associate of Richard Napier (I work on Simon Forman) and have been surprised to see no mentions of Napier in the present exchanges -- though I've been reading rather quickly. Two questions: 1. If anyone is doing work on the Napier circle, I'd very much like to know -- I've worked through a lot of the manuscripts but haven't done anything with them yet. 2. Deb--and everyone else--has anyone published on Agnelli? Many thanks, Lauren Kassell Subject: ACADEMY : The Monas' Readership Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 From: Deborah E. Harkness Dear All: I'm revising my Angelli article literally as we speak. I would be happy to send people a copy if they don't quote from it until it's out! Deb Subject: ACADEMY : Christopher Taylour From: Penny Bayer Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 Dear Lauren, I would be very interested in the nature of the association you have found between Christopher Taylour and Richard Napier. Could you provide some more information? In my paper to the Durham Thomas Harriot Seminar in December I will be discussing Christopher Taylour and alchemy in relation to a particular manuscript, associated with Lady Margaret Clifford, and putting forward a possible identity for him. Best regards Penny Bayer Subject: ACADEMY : Newton's alchemical papers Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 From: Rafal T. Prinke Over a year ago there was some discussion on Newton's alchemical papers at the Smithsonian and Susan Anne Miller provided a list of them. She also mentioned that > Cambridge only has the Keynes and Portsmouth Collections of > Newton's work, much else went private in the 1922 and 1936 sales. and > I think many of these are on the Chadwyck-Healey microfilms of > Newton's manuscripts. Is there a cumulative listing of them available? I do not have access to the books by Betty Jo Dobbs which may contain something like that. I would be interested to know which of the Newton's alchemical MSS are connected to Michael Sendivogius (comments, copies, remarks). In his 'A Portrait of Isaac Newton' Frank E. Manuel mentions "Explanations to Sendivogius" as Keynes MS. 55 (the actual title may be slightly different as I have the Polish edition). I also vaguely remember reading somewhere that there was an extant Newton's copy of 'New Light of Alchemy' with his marginal notes. Best regards, Rafal Subject: ACADEMY : Keren Happuch From: Eylon Israeli Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 Speaking hebrew sometime has it's benefits... Opening my Hebrew-Hebrew dictionary, it gives the following: (translated from the hebrew) Puch 1. A dye which the ancients used to color their eyelids for decoration or for healing. 2. One of the precious stones mentioned in the bible. Regards, Eylon. Subject: ACADEMY : Keren Happuch From: Adam McLean Date: 31 Oct 2000 I have found a reference in that excellent book of Raphael Patai 'The Jewish alchemists'. He recalls that Keren-happuch is one of the daughters of Job, and that the name can be interpreted alchemically as a retort in the form of a horn, derived from qeren (horn) and hafukh (inverted). This is not the significance that I originally recall. However, he mentions another interpretation of 'Keren-happuch' as : "the 'horn', that is the strength, of the pukh stone, that is the science of alchemy". This sense of the stone of power, the philosophers' stone, is the meaning I now remember. Adam McLean |
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