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| Posted: Sun Sep 26th, 2010 09:14 pm |
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13TH Tribesman
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Hi folks,
Could anyone be so kind as to identify what year, or edition of the Grand Jeu de Mademoiselle Lenormand this card back is from?
Many thanks,
13th
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27th, 2010 11:57 pm |
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2nd Post |
Demian Brennan-Gould
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Hello! May I ask, what is the cardstock like? Do you have any other helpful elements (box, booklet)? What is the exact size compared to regular full-size editions? And, what context did you encounter the cards, complete deck, image only, partial reference, etc.? We do know the originals date back, possibly to the 1850s... so there are many possibilities. Thanks!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28th, 2010 06:47 pm |
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3rd Post |
13TH Tribesman
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Hi,
Thank you for your reply. It is not a deck in my possession, rather a joint effort at unraveling a mystery across a rather large ocean...So, forgive the delay in responding. Tentatively, It should be the standard size Lenormand (Grand Jeu) deck, it is complete, it came in a box, although it seems uncertain that it is the same box as it was issued in, but of that (uncertain) box, I can upload an image.
It looks, to me, like the box of the 1890-1910 Lenormand from Grimaud. But the backs do not match any of the three images of card backs which I have hitherto seen as belonging to that era...
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28th, 2010 07:22 pm |
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4th Post |
Demian Brennan-Gould
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Here, note the squared corners; the cardstock is heavy,
with the complete deck measuring 1.125 inches thick:
I believe this deck is from the 1960s (in blue & white box).
The mention of MARTEAU on the "mystery" deck is surely
a significant clue. I look forward to others' replies for this.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28th, 2010 07:46 pm |
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5th Post |
13TH Tribesman
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So here are the significators, with back in context and here is the response I have from my friend, point by point to your questions...
I did not get any instruction manuals with the set but believe one was original packed with the set as there is room in the box for the 176 page instruction booklet to fit. I have an English translation of the French original manual which was 176 pages and dated 1845. It would fit in perfectly.
The set is complete as it is identical to all the reproduction sets I have and there are 54 cards in the deck.
There are no stamp marks on any of the cards and it is possible there was one on the box as there is a remnant of something, but it may not be a stamp.
The card stock is thicker than the reprints from the 1960’s and the more recent ones. I guess it is about 1/32 of an inch. I cannot measure thicknesses that small accurately.
The exact dimensions of the cards are 5 1/16 by 3 9/16 inches and around 1/32 of an inch thick.
I hope that this proves helpful...I personally find the absence of a tax stamp to be of curiosity...
Many thanks,
13th
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12th, 2010 02:50 am |
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6th Post |
lulukat
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Can you see some kind of tax stamp on it?
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12th, 2010 10:10 am |
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7th Post |
13TH Tribesman
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Hi Kat,
Nope. Nothing. The two of clubs should have one, as far as I know, see attached image, no clear indication there. Were they all stamped from the date of their first being made?
If not then this suggests that maybe these are more recent than the last date of tax stamping...
Thanks for the input....
13th
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13th, 2010 04:14 am |
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8th Post |
lulukat
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13TH Tribesman wrote:
Hi Kat,
Nope. Nothing. The two of clubs should have one, as far as I know, see attached image, no clear indication there. Were they all stamped from the date of their first being made?
If not then this suggests that maybe these are more recent than the last date of tax stamping...
Thanks for the input...
13th
Tax stamps RÉPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE & DÉCRET DU 12 AVRIL 1890 were used in France from 1890 - 1940 - this deck is most likely from after that. But hard to tell which year exactly. Decks prior to 1890 have often plain backs (pink for instance on Grimaud decks).
But who cares - it's a gorgeous deck! And you have the box, which is awesome.
B
Last edited on Wed Oct 13th, 2010 04:16 am by lulukat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13th, 2010 11:43 am |
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9th Post |
13TH Tribesman
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Thanks lulukat,
Well, it is not my deck. I do have the ones with the tax stamps, this is the deck of a friend who was sold this as over 100 years old, I think, complete with the authentic box. I think that the box is indeed the authentic one, but not for the cards contained within it...It will always remain a beautiful deck, but I feel concerned that my friend may have been deceived.
He works with old documents and such, and did feel that the cards had about them an air of age.
Be well...
13th
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23rd, 2010 05:40 pm |
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23rd, 2010 05:44 pm |
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11th Post |
Demian Brennan-Gould
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13TH Tribesman wrote: Thanks lulukat,
Well, it is not my deck. I do have the ones with the tax stamps, this is the deck of a friend who was sold this as over 100 years old, I think, complete with the authentic box. I think that the box is indeed the authentic one, but not for the cards contained within it...It will always remain a beautiful deck, but I feel concerned that my friend may have been deceived.
He works with old documents and such, and did feel that the cards had about them an air of age.
Be well...
13th
I think yours is indeed "older" since the tax stamp logic does not seem to apply. So, what's true about tax stamps need not be true about your (your friend's) cards.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23rd, 2010 05:50 pm |
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12th Post |
13TH Tribesman
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HI!
Well thank you for the pictures and update.
They really are my friend's cards! It isn't analagous to wandering into a chemist and asking about a 'friends' unusual lumps in embarrassing areas...I promise!
I like the Dusserre version. The colours seem richer perhaps.
Very nice
Hope you're all having a marvelous weekend people,
13th
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23rd, 2010 05:57 pm |
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13th Post |
Demian Brennan-Gould
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MARTEAU seems to me a very significant clue! Cheers!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23rd, 2010 06:09 pm |
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14th Post |
13TH Tribesman
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~I have found a reference to Chartier Marteau which suggests that it was a company name used from 1909...
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