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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 07:36 am |
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51st Post |
goldenweb
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Speaking from some (limited) experience in publishing plus direct research into costs for printing cards, the price of professional printing only comes down when the numbers soar into the thousands...
Pen
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 08:46 am |
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52nd Post |
Stefan
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So or so i think it should be possible for others to buy a copy of our deck. Why not limit it to 1000 copies (or less) and sell it?
That would be a great promotion for the artists and also a well promotion for the Collectors Forum.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 01:07 pm |
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53rd Post |
Jackdaw
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Stefan wrote: So or so i think it should be possible for others to buy a copy of our deck. Why not limit it to 1000 copies (or less) and sell it?
That would be a great promotion for the artists and also a well promotion for the Collectors Forum.
If we do decide to do this, I'm out. Sorry. 
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 02:58 pm |
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54th Post |
skad1
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Ok, Sorry for not being around this weekend, but I am usually out-of-touch on weekends, and due to a training class it will be spotty this week.
It sounds like the consensus is 1 card per artist for the majors and come one come all for the minors. So Mr.la-luna needs to let me know which of his 3 cards he prefers. And no unifying theme. Oh well, there are still a few more days to vote!!!!
I also don't like the idea of a mass produced deck of 1000 or more. We'd never sell that many, and it's be a major hassle to someone! I do think making a very few extra to sell to offset costs is a good idea.
I like the idea of 22 set printed and 78 digital. Give me some time to check around on printing. If they are professionally printed they will probably need blank backs or b/w backs. We'll see.
Isn't 1:1.5 standard card size? In other words, one and a half inches inches (or centimeters) in height to one inch (or centimeter) in width. (2 x 3 inches, 3 x 4.5 inches) If not, It is an easy ratio to remember!
Last edited on Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 03:15 pm by skad1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 03:25 pm |
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55th Post |
AdamMcLean
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Stefan wrote: So or so i think it should be possible for others to buy a copy of our deck. Why not limit it to 1000 copies (or less) and sell it?
That would be a great promotion for the artists and also a well promotion for the Collectors Forum.
Sorry but selling 1000 decks is a pipedream. It is almost impossible for small publishers to sell more than a hundred or so, without the assistance of a major distributor. Who exactly is going to put up the capital for printing 1000 copies ?
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 03:27 pm |
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56th Post |
gregory
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Jackdaw wrote: Stefan wrote: So or so i think it should be possible for others to buy a copy of our deck. Why not limit it to 1000 copies (or less) and sell it?
That would be a great promotion for the artists and also a well promotion for the Collectors Forum.
If we do decide to do this, I'm out. Sorry.
I'm sorry, but so am I. This was to be for US.....
ETA to Adam - some people do seem to manage - I have quite a few decks printed as editions of 1000 - even some from Meneghello. And 500 - Whispering, to name but one. I have no idea how - but it does happen.
Last edited on Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 03:38 pm by gregory
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 03:42 pm |
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57th Post |
gregory
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I did offer to take all the threes, skad - they didn't hit the updated list..... No-one else has asked, so I guess they are still up for grabs ?
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 03:58 pm |
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58th Post |
BlueToy
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I think selling it would be against what made us do the deck in the first place, though I am not adverse to the idea of maybe sending copies of it to the Museo dei Tarocchi or even to USG for their Tarot Encyclopaedia.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 04:01 pm |
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59th Post |
Marcia959
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I'm good with the idea of 22 set printed and 78 digital. Since I have not signed up for a major arcana, being the the fraidy cat here, it at least gives me an opportunity to share the project with the big kids.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 04:05 pm |
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60th Post |
BlueToy
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Also, I think someone in AT gave a link some weeks back, to a site that prints decks (site's caled Playing Cards R US, can't seem to find the AT thread at the moment). Someone also messaged me in AT to ask advice about self-publication, and whether the quote the site gave was ok. Here's the details he messaged:
based on a 54-card deck, Custom Printed Backs & Faces, Premium 280 Paper Card Stock with Plastic Coating 25+ decks - $9.70 each (25 is the absolute minimum).
I don't think that's expensive at all. On the other hand, I can't recall if anyone in the thread has acquired their services.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 04:18 pm |
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61st Post |
| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 04:58 pm |
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62nd Post |
AdamMcLean
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BlueToy wrote: Also, I think someone in AT gave a link some weeks back, to a site that prints decks
based on a 54-card deck, Custom Printed Backs & Faces, Premium 280 Paper Card Stock with Plastic Coating 25+ decks - $9.70 each (25 is the absolute minimum).
I think the problem with these printers is that you have to work to their standard format. If you don't and you want something custom made, the charges mount up.
One of the problems I found with these printers is that they seem to work to a standard playing card size. They will not print edge to edge, and prefer a wide border to make cutting easier. Thus the image can get placed within rather wide white borders.
So if people wanted to have the cards printed up by such a printer, it would be best to get in touch with the printer and sort out a standard format for the artwork, then people could work with that.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 05:01 pm |
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63rd Post |
goldenweb
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BlueToy wrote: Also, I think someone in AT gave a link some weeks back, to a site that prints decks (site's caled Playing Cards R US, can't seem to find the AT thread at the moment). Someone also messaged me in AT to ask advice about self-publication, and whether the quote the site gave was ok. Here's the details he messaged:
based on a 54-card deck, Custom Printed Backs & Faces, Premium 280 Paper Card Stock with Plastic Coating 25+ decks - $9.70 each (25 is the absolute minimum).
I don't think that's expensive at all. On the other hand, I can't recall if anyone in the thread has acquired their services.
That does sound like a good price - and 25 decks min. is a decent low number too. I did look at some of these companies when I was ready to print both the Mystic Rubaiyat and the Pen, but felt that, for the art, the cards needed to be larger than the standard playing card size.
Re. my previous post, I'll happily do a new image if that's what's wanted - the reason I suggested an existing artwork was partly because I prefer to have some sort of theme as kick-start/inspiration rather than start from absolute zero.
Pen
Edited to add this PS: posted at the same time as Adam, so I didn't see his message.
Last edited on Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 05:03 pm by goldenweb
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 05:42 pm |
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64th Post |
nicole
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I am fine with whatever anyone decides...
As per selling some to offset the cost of printing I am fine, but doubtful that my work would inspire anyone to pull out their wallet.
With the number of responses, it looks like 78 is possible...but perhaps that includes people who want to contribute a prior card they had created... and frankly I have no problem with that as well.. the idea is people creating tarot cards and so voila ...tarot cards.
I am just excited that we will have a deck again this year and look forward to working with everyone and the oohs and ahhs as each card is posted...
The intent, besides the cool cards only we will have bwahaha, is that we have fun.
So have fun dammit ;)
Nicky
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 06:09 pm |
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65th Post |
skad1
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I have finally updated list, so Gregory did get the 3's.
Actually, the reason I included the 78 cards on the list was to see if we could do a 78 deck. I was pretty sure we could get another 22 card created, but I wasn't sure about the 78, I really didn't think there would be this response, and at the beginning too! And there are more people who have PM'd me that they will be checking in later. 
Note to Marcia959-I didn't feel ready to do a major on the first deck, but these are a wonderfully supportive group of people who didn't make my efforts seem puny. Check over out last deck and see the variety of styles and skill levels. It turns out to be a great experience.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 07:04 pm |
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66th Post |
Stefan
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If there shouldn't be printed more decks than only for the artist, that means not for public, then the majors should be enough so long there are not 78 artists and every one creates 1 card.
Printed majors and digital minors are funny. Whatfore this will be well?
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 07:37 pm |
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67th Post |
| Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 08:28 pm |
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68th Post |
Marcia959
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I could take the Empress.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 12:11 am |
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69th Post |
skad1
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Stefan wrote: If there shouldn't be printed more decks than only for the artist, that means not for public, then the majors should be enough so long there are not 78 artists and every one creates 1 card.
Printed majors and digital minors are funny. Whatfore this will be well?
I would think the printed ones are to hoard and treasure, and the individual would print all 78 to read with. 
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 02:03 am |
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70th Post |
skad1
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AdamMcLean wrote: BlueToy wrote: Also, I think someone in AT gave a link some weeks back, to a site that prints decks
based on a 54-card deck, Custom Printed Backs & Faces, Premium 280 Paper Card Stock with Plastic Coating 25+ decks - $9.70 each (25 is the absolute minimum).
I think the problem with these printers is that you have to work to their standard format. If you don't and you want something custom made, the charges mount up.
One of the problems I found with these printers is that they seem to work to a standard playing card size. They will not print edge to edge, and prefer a wide border to make cutting easier. Thus the image can get placed within rather wide white borders.
So if people wanted to have the cards printed up by such a printer, it would be best to get in touch with the printer and sort out a standard format for the artwork, then people could work with that.
I emailed the company to ask for info. Cost for 23 or 79 card deck, design restrains, etc. They have 2 sizes of standard card sizes-Poker sie sounds good to me. I am asking about borders and deck size.
-Bridge Sized Playing Cards are: 2.25" x 3.5"
-Poker Sized Playing Cards are: 2.5" x 3.5"
It will be interesting.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 02:14 am |
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71st Post |
skad1
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I sorted the cards taken by designer/artist, just to make it easier to see which you have taken. As always, let me know if I have a mistake. Attached Image (viewed 343 times):
 Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 02:14 am by skad1
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 09:31 am |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 01:23 am |
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73rd Post |
skad1
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I emailed the company BlueToy talked about, and here is their quote. The problem is the unitial outlay.
Attached Image (viewed 317 times):
 Last edited on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 01:47 am by skad1
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 02:10 am |
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74th Post |
blistersnbutterflies
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I am not sure how you are selecting cards but it looks like the Magician is open.
I would like to do that card if possible.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 11:01 am |
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75th Post |
Morwenna
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(((Arnell)))
Thanks so much for giving me the Queen of Wands!!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 02:16 pm |
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76th Post |
acucent
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...i see you need a QUEEN of Pentacles....pls put me down for that one!
susi
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 08:12 pm |
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77th Post |
Arnell
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Morwenna wrote: (((Arnell)))
Thanks so much for giving me the Queen of Wands!!
Dear Morwenna,
It ‘tis my pleasure and I very much look forward to seeing your Queen of Wands...and of course everyone else's cards. This is gonna be so much fun.
And while I’m here…well actually, it doesn't seem folks are still seriously considering a print run of 1000 decks but just in case I thought I should mention two things. One, it took me forever (well at least 7 years) to sell 1000 deck sets (Transformational T. ) and a lot of sweat and toil...and gnashing of teeth financially speaking, (it was a positive, learning experience too, but I’m just focusing on my concerns for the moment). And the other worry I would have is for collage artists like me, and the whole copyright issue. When its just a few copies up for sale I wouldn't worry at all but with 1000 copies out there, the collage artists would either have to be careful to use only art that is in the public domain (75 years or older is usually pretty safe), or art in the collage that is not recognizable and hope that no one out there happens to see an image that might inspire them to sue us. Even if they were to lose the lawsuit it would still cost money to defend the deck/artwork...so I would rather keep it a small production, not made for profit so as not to attract that sort of unwanted attention. I do like the idea of sending a copy to the fabulous Museo dei Tarocchi and Sir Stuart Kaplan of U.S. Games tho. That would be swell… TGIF! Hope you all have a great weekend. I’m excited about this deck project. Warmly Arnell
Last edited on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 08:13 pm by Arnell
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28th, 2009 09:15 am |
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78th Post |
goldenweb
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Just catching up with this thread. If I can't have the Magician (existing or newly created), I'd like to express an interest in Temperance if she's still free...
Pen
Edited to add: ...and yes, printing a large number would not be wise I think. Reading through my post regarding 1000s again I realise that those three enigmatic little dots at the end of the sentence are somewhat ambiguous.
Last edited on Sat Feb 28th, 2009 09:20 am by goldenweb
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28th, 2009 07:46 pm |
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79th Post |
Chronata
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I would love to do the High Priestess, please!
and for minors...just fill my name in wherever there's a blank space...I'll do any card.
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Jackdaw
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The list on the first page has been updated to leave the Kings vacant again. If that's the case, can I have the King of Wands, please?
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Stefan
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Yes you can!
All 4 Kings are free for everyone of you, i'll create only 1 major (Hierophant)!
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sacredashes
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Since there aren't any themes to the deck.. , may I have The Chariot please.. that is if its not already taken?
*****************************************************
On a seperate note; just a thought... I'm putting ideas out there in hope it may bridge different consensus.. From what I gather, the concerns brought up here are all valid.
Having just received my copy of a collaborative deck, it has a myriad of beautiful artwork each depicting the artist's personality/vision/skillful mastery, etc. However, it does feel ad hoc in that the sizes, card stock quality and backs are different. Although its got a quaint sort of feel to it, it's also like doing a comparisson reading where one takes a card from different decks to form a hybrid deck of sorts.. kind of mismatched.
Thus, the suggestion of a unified theme and printer to collate the images and print them sounds good but I can't afford to chip in on something like that.
I wonder if, in the spirit of:
a) supporting each other in the creation of a collaboration majors only deck, for basically no payment other than the satisfaction of having a indie deck we can show off with pride and say.. I was part of that;
b) supporting indie publishers (not naming names, mind you... http://tarotcollectors.com/view_topic.php?id=692&forum_id=3);
If the artists would consider:
a) receiving 1 copy of the deck in lieu of payments and paying postage for the deck to be sent to them.
b) supporting the publisher who would be willing to take up such a task by allowing the publisher the rights to sell a limited number of copies of the deck to recover his costs. Retail price of the deck would be solely at the disgression of the publisher, of course, as it is his costs incurred by helping us publish a deck that is consistant in appearance and material.
The artists agree to waive off any claims to the proceeds. Copyrights to the images remains with the artist of course; the publisher merely has the rights to print a certain number of decks, pre-arranged agreement.
c) The artists send digital images in high resolution to the publisher without any titles on the image, allowing the publisher to add the titles before printing. Artists keep the original work. All the cards have borders/no borders and plain black... It may be the subtle, unified theme of the whole deck that marks it as: 2009 Tarot Collectors Forum Collaborative Deck.
How will the artists be identified then?
Suggestion: An additional card that lists out the cards from 0 - 21, the title of the card with the artists' name and website address next to it. The fonts will be small of course, not sure if that's possible but its the call card that give artists exposure, free advertisement. Benefits not in terms of monetary payment but benefits nonetheless.
I must admit, its a little sacrifice from all parties, a little give and take for something in exchange. Reading up on the thread I included above, anytime is a good time to start a pebble rolling.
 Don't know any indie publisher who might be interested (...Adam, no pressure... but did you notice the title?  )  I vote that Adam gets first dips on the offer and if he turns it down, only then we'll look around for another printer/publisher who may be interested.
OR... we could just do the card, make 22 copies of it and arrange for one of the participating artist to collate and send the decks out. I'm basing this whole post on the Majors Only deck. If the full deck or 78 cards is created, variables will change accordingly but I second Blue Toy's suggestion Posted: Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 10:59 am.
I took part in a collaborative effort last year which turned out to be both an enriching experience and my longest nightmare ever. A little apprehensive about how this one will turn out but I would like to be part of this process very much.
P.S:**Please just take what is written above as a note slipped into the suggestion box for the Management's consideration... since we're brain-storming and all..
P.P.S: Anyone seen the new Sacred Indian Tarot that is a collaboration of various artists from India? I think its in the Show and Tell... I also think we can achieve something like that... I really do... We've got some serious KICK-ASS talents involved here!!!
Ash
Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 06:42 am by sacredashes
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sacredashes
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goldenweb wants Temperence and Chronata wants the High Priestess...
c'mon... this deck will be great!
Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 06:41 am by sacredashes
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gregory
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Hi Ash - I was in on probably the same one you just received. In that respect - I am scanning and reprinting that one, to make it usable.
However - the process we ran with last time here - though I would rather have paid postage - worked pretty well, even though we did kill OnePotato's printer. All very amicable.
Some of us (including me) would drop out if the deck were for sale. None of us were paid for our decks last time - nor would we expect/want to be. I think the 22 printed/56 digital should work pretty well.... though I would gladly pay towards the printing of a whole deck, as I don't think ANYONE could take that on for free (in fact, even the 22 will be a problem, as there will be many more artists this time.) Adam has always said he cannot print 78 card decks. I'd rather all the cards were printed by one person, as - as you say - the alternative is SO inconsistent !
And we did OK last time with no theme.
But I for one do NOT want to see this get in any way "commercial" and with many copies on sale. One extra, for a raffle, is something else....
Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 04:56 pm by gregory
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blue bubble
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Hi Everyone
I have only recently joined this lovely site and noticed that some of you are involved in creating a collaborative deck. WELL DONE.
Can you fill me in, have all the Majors gone?
Thanks,
Love and light
Mary
http://www.hezicostarot.com
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nicole
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gregory wrote:
But I for one do NOT want to see this get in any way "commercial" and with many copies on sale. One extra, for a raffle, is something else....
The idea to offset the deck was fine with me for one extra.. although I am fine with donating cash to whomever takes on this massive printing task.. and I vote for one for Adam as well for running this forum..
That said I am fine with majority rules... are we near the 22 majors yet?
Nicky
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sacredashes
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gregory wrote: Hi Ash - I was in on probably the same one you just received. In that respect - I am scanning and reprinting that one, to make it usable.
However - the process we ran with last time here - though I would rather have paid postage - worked pretty well, even though we did kill OnePotato's printer. All very amicable.
Some of us (including me) would drop out if the deck were for sale. None of us were paid for our decks last time - nor would we expect/want to be. I think the 22 printed/56 digital should work pretty well.... though I would gladly pay towards the printing of a whole deck, as I don't think ANYONE could take that on for free (in fact, even the 22 will be a problem, as there will be many more artists this time.) Adam has always said he cannot print 78 card decks. I'd rather all the cards were printed by one person, as - as you say - the alternative is SO inconsistent !
And we did OK last time with no theme.
But I for one do NOT want to see this get in any way "commercial" and with many copies on sale. One extra, for a raffle, is something else....
I noticed the polls set up addressed the theme and number of cards but to be honest, there are quite a lot of other stuff I'm still unclear about. I do get what you mean about selling the deck and about not getting paid; and completely respect the preferance of all artists involved.
So what happens now... shall I start on The Chariot or wait till its assigned to me?
I do have one final question... wouldn't it be easier if the deck (Majors only or full version, whichever ends up being made) was digital and we can just print it ourselves? That way, the cardstock and size would be consistant plus, there won't be a need for someone to collate and mail the decks out after.
Ash
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sacredashes
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nicole wrote: gregory wrote:
But I for one do NOT want to see this get in any way "commercial" and with many copies on sale. One extra, for a raffle, is something else....
The idea to offset the deck was fine with me for one extra.. although I am fine with donating cash to whomever takes on this massive printing task.. and I vote for one for Adam as well for running this forum..
That said I am fine with majority rules... are we near the 22 majors yet?
Nicky
Looks like its almost there... and good suggestion; what if someone here has the capacity to print the number of decks required with 1 or 2 extra for gifting and such... what would the cost be for the print, matrials and say a little extra for time/effort... any idea?
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skad1
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One Major left. The Emperor First come, first get it!
I will have more printing info by tomorrow.
See first page for updated list of cards left.
Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 06:43 pm by skad1
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truelighth
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sacredashes wrote: Since there aren't any themes to the deck.. , may I have The Chariot please.. that is if its not already taken?
Hey Ash, welcome aboard. Wow, I will have a card in the same deck as you.. I am so honored . You know I love your art, so I am glad you also decided to join.
Btw, how much minors have been taken so far? Will it be possible to do minors? I guess I could also take a few.. haven't decided which yet.
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skad1
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Ambriel wrote: May I have the Emperor?
I had it last time, but what the heck....I'll can be challenged by him again.
Maybe someone will trade if you'd rather do another?
That's the last major. Wow, in less than 2 weeks we had enough interest to complete the list for the majors. Now we need to finish off the minors.
I have more information on a printer, but I need to digest it and spit it out, so it'll be tomorrow before I get it untangled.
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goldenweb
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I have a yen to do the Knight of Cups as well as Temperance - it looks as though he's still free.
Pen
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gregory
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| Joined: | Wed Sep 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 3281 |
| Status: |
Online
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skad/world - did no-one notice blue bubble's post above ????? creator of the Hezicos tarot ?
And to whomever - grab a few minors while they're hot !
I am fine with digital and print it yourself (though I know OnePotato's work is truly wonderful, and would also happily chip in to pay him....) But I think quite a few here haven't the facility to print up a whole deck.....
Last edited on Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 03:48 pm by gregory
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, but can I change my card?
truelighth,
*snif* *snif*
to myself 
i like you already.... 
you're funny, 
