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Texts and History of alchemy e-mail group archive
February and March 1997.

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Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
From: Vladimir Georgiev
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:02:35 +100

Dear Michal,

Since I do not think that F. Yates has written whole books on Gnosticism (not
Gnosis which is a term much bandied about nowadays without any relation to
dualism) in alchemy, I would be happy if someone, who has her books,
would tell me simply which pages in which books of hers deal with
that problem. Please quote fully.

Thnks in advance.

Yours,

Vlado.
vladimir Georgiev

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
From: Jon Marshall
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 14:39:50 -0800

Vladimir Georgiev wrote
> I am a Bulgarian monk and lecturer on research in Hungary. Can somebody
> provide information on the relation between ancient Gnosticism and Alchemy
> (outside Jung)? Please quote.

If I can be difficult as well, I'm wondering what you mean by gnosticism?
After all, it seems rather a disparate collection of movements all lumped together
by their enemies with little in the way of doctrinal or theoretical coherence or
even organisational similarities.

Judging by the usual criteria the Church of Scientolgy is a pure gnostic
movement it involves a fall to the earth from an enlightened state, and an
attempt to reascend via knowledge and technique- yet once people have finished
coughing- it obviously has no connection to, say the Valentinian gnosis.

I confess also to being a little less enthusiastic about Yates than George.
She does briefly discuss the relationship of 'the gnosis' to the
hermetica in the Giordiano Bruno book but largely to paraphrase Festugiere (by
her own account, and thus ignoring all the Nag Hamadi stuff which includes
hermetic texts etc), and it is true that we have at least the criteria that a
hermeticist must quote the 'writings or authority of Hermes' but she dismisses
the 'practical hermetica' as beneath notice- though conceeding they are
important to understanding some of the Asclepius (see GB & the HT pp44-). And
hardly discusses alchemy at all despite it being "the hermetic science *par
excellence*" (ibid: 150). she can even mention the emerald tablet only once.
something wierd is happening if the 'practical' is so important that you can
just ignore it.

So there is at least a triple problem
1) is there a thing which names itself as gnosticism?
2) is this connected with ancient hermeticism?
2a) what is the connection of either of these with neo-platonism?
3) are any of these connected to each other and to alchemy or to particular
strands of alchemy?

Ok references that might help

Atwood, a asuggestive enquiry into the hermetic mystery [mainly on
neo-platonism and the 'mysteries']

Faivre, a access to western esotericism, SUNY, 1994 [scattered bits and peices,
usuful bibliography]

Faivre eternal hermes, phanes 1995, [again fragmentary, but interesting]

Fowden, G. Egyptian hermes, Cambridge UP 1986

Lindsay, J. Origins of alchemy in Graeco roman egypt, mueller 1970 [mainly for
the origins of alchemy and its relation philsophy generally]

Merkur Dan ??????? sorry i can't remember the title, but it does have a chapter
which I havn't read with a suggestive title.

Pagel "Paracelsus and the neoplatonic and gnostic tradition" Ambix 1960 125-66

Pagel "The eightness of adam and related gnostic ideas in the Paracelsian
corpus" Ambix 1969 pp119-39

Sheppard "Gnosticism and alchemy" Ambix 1957 pp86-101 [outdated but essential]

Sheppard "The redemption theme and hellenistic alchemy" Ambix 1959 pp42-6

Sheppard "The ouroboros and the unity of matter" Ambix 1962 pp83-96

Sheppard "Origin of the gnostic -alchemical relatiionship" Scientia 97, 1962
pp146-9

Wellesz "Music in the treatises of Greek gnostics and alchemists" Ambix 1951
pp145-58,


Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
From: Adam McLean
Date: 2 Feb 1997

Dan Merkur. Gnosis: An Esoteric Tradition of Mystical Visions and Unions. State University of New York Press. 1993. ISBN 0-7914-1620-8

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
From: Vladimir Georgiev
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:49:07 +100

Dear Jon,

Many sincere thanks for your posting. I wrote a dissertation on ancient
Gnosticism which I plan to publish in Bulgaria (I am looking for sponsors,
especially from abroad). I can not agree that "it seems rather a disparate
collection of movements all lumped together by their enemies..." It is true
that they did not strive after mechanical organizational coherence but
doctrinally they were quite united around two central ideas - dualism
and God-man identity. You are perfectly right that Scientology is a
modern Gnostis movement. I nearly fainted with laughter when I came
across their prayer book, in whose texts God is never mentioned.
Scientology is, at least to me, half-demythologized Gnosticism, while
existentialism, for instance, goes the full length of this process.
Ancient Hermetism is essentially monist but Gnosticism, which did
have some fringe monistic tendencies, is dualist. Neo-platonism
played an extremely important role in the genesis and development of
Gnosticism, which, I think, appeared not in Greek philosophical circles
but in heretical Jewry of the 1st century. In this respect I support Birger
Pearson.

I have got Dan Merkur's book which tries to prove that ancient Gnosticism
was a religion of visions and revelations in the spirit of Kabala and
Sufism. This strains credulity. Real Gnostics were and are 'knowers'
(gnosis means 'knowledge') and hardly bothered about the Merkabah
experiences which Merkur ascribes to them.

Would you or someone else please provide full names and titles for
the Atwood and Faivre works which you quoted?

Thanks again.

Vlado.

Vladimir Georgiev

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:11:16 +0100
From: Michal Pober

>From: Vladimir Georgiev
>Since I do not think that F. Yates has written whole books on Gnosticism (not
>Gnosis which is a term much bandied about nowadays without any relation to
>dualism) in alchemy, I would be happy if someone, who has her books,
>would tell me simply which pages in which books of hers deal with
>that problem. Please quote fully.


Dear Vladimir,
Perhaps I have unwittingly added to the confusion; I live in Prague, so my
access to English language texts is probably as restricted as yours. My
hope was to help to make your needs clearer to those who are in a stronger
position to help you directly.
However I do also wonder, as does Jon Marshall, whether Frances Yates is
very relevant to your enquiry, though I have great admiration for her work.
it seems that he has come up with a number of good citations for you.

best regards,
michal

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:21:05 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Michal Pober
>Excuse me butting in, but perhaps to defuse a cross-cultural
>misunderstanding, I'm understanding Vladimir to be asking for what George
>is calling the citations, as clearly cited as possible, because the
>Budapest librarians are not too hot at tracking foreign language books.

Maybe so. Here's some basic citations of relevant works from the UT Online
Catalogue:

AUTHOR: Yates, Frances Amelia.
TITLE: Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic tradition.
PUBLISHED: (Chicago) University of Chicago Press (1964)

AUTHOR: Yates, Frances Amelia.
TITLE: Lull and Bruno : collected essays.
PUBLISHED: London ; Boston : Routledge & K. Paul, 1982-

AUTHOR: Yates, Frances Amelia.
TITLE: The occult philosophy in the Elizabethan age / Frances A.
Yates.
PUBLISHED: London ; Boston : Routledge & K. Paul, 1979.

George Leake

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:27:08 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Vladimir Georgiev
>Since I do not think that F. Yates has written whole books on Gnosticism (not
>Gnosis which is a term much bandied about nowadays without any relation to
>dualism) in alchemy, I would be happy if someone, who has her books,
>would tell me simply which pages in which books of hers deal with
>that problem. Please quote fully.

Perhaps you should have been more specific. I had thought you meant
"Gnosis" the phenomenom of inner spiritual knowledge. As opposed to the
specific religious movement spoken of in the Nag Hammadi & other documents,
and what evolved, some assert, into Manichaeism. Personally, I think the
issue of inner spiritual knowledge, aka Gnosis, is at the core of alchemy.
Which of course in and of itself says nothing specifically about dualism.

George Leake

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:37:46 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Jon Marshall
>If I can be difficult as well, I'm wondering what you mean by gnosticism?
>After all, it seems rather a disparate collection of movements all lumped
>together by their enemies with little in the way of doctrinal or theoretical
>coherence or even organisational similarities.

Once again, I revisit the concept of gnosis as inner spiritual knowledge.
Might I suggest there a strong link to the concept theurgia?
As opposed to the specific movement, gnosticism, which many say evolved
into various movements including Manichaesim

>Judging by the usual criteria the Church of Scientolgy is a pure gnostic
>movement it involves a fall to the earth from an enlightened state, and an
>attempt to reascend via knowledge and technique- yet once people have
>finished coughing- it obviously has no connection to, say the Valentinian
>gnosis.

Yeah, though I think that's a very odd one. A "gnostic movement" seems to
suggest something more to do with society or groups of people rather than
the individual

>I confess also to being a little less enthusiastic about Yates than George.

It all depends on what one considers "Gnosis". In the sense I've defined,
certainly Qabbalah (and Yates details some of the variations) and
Hermeticism would qualify as philosophies Gnostic in character. What
about the Corpus Hermeticum? Is there not a strong link here?

>She does briefly discuss the relationship of 'the gnosis' to the
>hermetica in the Giordiano Bruno book but largely to paraphrase Festugiere
>(by her own account, and thus ignoring all the Nag Hamadi stuff which
>includes hermetic texts etc), and it is true that we have at least the criteria
>that a hermeticist must quote the 'writings or authority of Hermes' but she
>dismisses the 'practical hermetica' as beneath notice- though conceeding
>they are important to understanding some of the Asclepius (see GB & the
>HT pp44-).

I'll double check my copy at home, but if I recall correctly, she's
dismissing a specific brand of "practical hermetica"...

>1) is there a thing which names itself as gnosticism?
>2) is this connected with ancient hermeticism?
>2a) what is the connection of either of these with neo-platonism?
>3) are any of these connected to each other and to alchemy or to particular
>strands of alchemy?

I think some of these questions raise others, but in terms of Gnosis as
another word for Theurgy, or what some might call Divine Union, certainly I
see some connections.

Jon. Nice references, btw.

George Leake

Subject: TEXTS - Gnosis and alchemy
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:02:30 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

Two other possible sources I think not mentioned:

AUTHOR: Holmyard, Eric John, 1891-1959.
TITLE: Alchemy.
PUBLISHED: Baltimore, Penguin Books (1968)

If I recall correctly this looks at Arabic sources--perhaps some allusions
to gnosticism the movement might creep up here

AUTHOR: Berthelot, M. (Marcellin), 1827-1907
TITLE: ORIGINES DE L'ALCHIMIE
PUBLISHED: 1885

This has a bit speculating on sources--egyptian, hellenistic, gnostic--for
early alchemy...

George Leake

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
From: Jon Marshall
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:25:26 -0800

On Feb 2, Vladimir Georgiev wrote:

> Many sincere thanks for your posting. I wrote a dissertation on ancient
> Gnosticism which I plan to publish in Bulgaria (I am looking for sponsors,
> especially from abroad). I can not agree that "it seems rather a disparate
> collection of movements all lumped together by their enemies..." It is true
> that they did not strive after mechanical organizational coherence but
> doctrinally they were quite united around two central ideas - dualism
> and God-man identity.

I am not really capable of disputing well with you as it is probably 15 or so
years since I was familiar with Gnostic texts, or the writings about them (and
I'm sure things have changed in that time) and I'm not sure the alchemy forum is
the right place, but I am surprised to read that *all* Gnostics were dualists.
Dualism is a somewhat wide category - after all you could argue that
Christianity on occasions seems to be dualist, either because of occasional
focuses on the 'powers of darkness', the 'prince of this world', (I believe Paul
uses the term 'archon'?), or because of the distinction between the 'City of
God' and the 'City of Rome', or because of the kind of disavowal of the senses
and valorisation of the 'spirit' found in say Origen. And I assume we agree that
'mainstream' Christianity (whatever its varients) is not 'gnostic'.

You will have to excuse my memory, which undoubtedly is imperfect, but I cannot
remember much that is overtly dualist in say the gospel of Thomas, or even in
the collection known as the Pistis Sophia, and at least Pagels argues that the
Valentinian gnosis was in favour of One god. She also says Clement of Alexandria
refers to a 'monadic' gnosis (Gnostic gospels 1979:31).

As for the god/man identity in the pistis sophia, it seems to me that Mead is
accurate in his old edition, as describing Jesus as the "Saviour and First
Mystery... pre-existent from eternity" (page xl), and after all Jesus is
recorded as saying "ye shall be as gods"

> Ancient Hermetism is essentially monist but Gnosticism, which did
> have some fringe monistic tendencies, is dualist. Neo-platonism
> played an extremely important role in the genesis and development of
> Gnosticism, which, I think, appeared not in Greek philosophical circles
> but in heretical Jewry of the 1st century. In this respect I support Birger
> Pearson.

Unfortunatly I can't remember the title or author of the book that convinced me
gnosticism was pre-christian and primarily Hellenic (i.e. a product of the
confluence of east and west in Alexandria) though as you will be aware some
writers have argued that Christianity itself was influenced by the same stream
through Paul. The antiquity of Hermeticism is a similar problem, but I found GRS
Mead's arguements in Thrice Greatest Hermes surprisingly persuasive.

Anyway to a certain extent chronology is not important, the problem is mutual
influence or mutual origins/generation. Whether they originated as Jewish Heresy
or Alexandrian speculation, is almost irrelevant to the question of their
connections with alchemy, and they certainly flourished in the Alexandrian
environment.

> I have got Dan Merkur's book which tries to prove that ancient Gnosticism
> was a religion of visions and revelations in the spirit of Kabala and
> Sufism. This strains credulity. Real Gnostics were and are 'knowers'
> (gnosis means 'knowledge') and hardly bothered about the Merkabah
> experiences which Merkur ascribes to them.

Not having read Merkur I would hardly like to agree with him, but surely some of
the texts describe 'visions' and seem to expect that the gnostic will have
similar visions on their ascension?
And that the vision, the apperception, is a form of 'knowing' which can be
distinguished from textual or theoretical knowing- which I vaguely remember the
'gnostics' were supposed to condemn.
>
> Would you or someone else please provide full names and titles for
> the Atwood and Faivre works which you quoted?
>

The obtainable edition of the atwood was published by William Tait in Belfast in
1918, the edition people can actually find is republished by "yogi publication
society no place no date. there are other editions.
This is a text in the tradition of adeptism, and personally i don't find its
arguement that the secret of alchemy is the same as the secret of the classical
mysteries persuasive, but it is the only text I know which goes into alchemy and
neo-platonism in any depth.

Faivre access etc. is State University Press of New York, New York 1994
Eternal Hermes is Phanes Press, Grand Rapids, 1995

Another book I haven't seen

Segal, Robert Alan 'The Poimandres as myth: scholarly theory and Gnostic
meaning' de Gruyter, Berlin, 1986

Another article which may be relevant

Granger, Frank 'The poemander of Hermes Trismegistus' Journal of Theological
Studies vol 5, 1904 pp 395-412
is about the connection between the hermetica, the gospel of the Egyptians and
the Naassenes

Subject: TEXTS - Alchemy and Gnosis
From: Jon Marshall
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:58:58 -0800

Yet more essays, *perhaps* useful for your study of alchemy and gnosticism:

All three are in

Ingrid Merkel & Allen Debus 'Hermeticism and the renaissance: intellectual
History and the occult in early modern Europe', Folger Books, Associated
University Presses Incorporated, New Jersey? 1988

Scarborough, John 'Hermetic and related texts in classical antiquity' pp19-44,
Grese, William "Magic in Hellenistic hermeticism" pp45-58
Idel, Moshe "Hermeticism and Judaism" pp59-76.

It is possible that the article by Copenhaver "Hermes trismegistus, Proclus and
the questio of a philosophy of magic in the renaissance" might be of interest as
well.

There is also an introduction to the problem, largely using secondary sources in
Robert Schuler's unpublished Phd thesis 'Hermetic and alchemical traditions of
the english renaissance and seventeenth century, with an essay on their relation
to alchemical poetry, as illustrated by an edition of Blomfild's Blossoms...'
Department of English, University of Colarado 1971

Interestingly he mentions that Michael Psellos is the first writer of alchemical
tracts to posses the corpus hermeticum as we have it today...

jon

Subject: TEXTS - Perlasse
From: Scott Whitman
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:10:43 +0000

Can someone please inform me as to what the French term "ferlasse" (or
"perlasse") might be. I believe it's a "chemical substance" used in
alchemy.

Also, is anyone here familiar with the Ordre souverain des Freres
Aines de la Rose Croix (est. 1317 A.D.)?

Thanks much,

Scott Whitman

Subject: TEXTS - Perlasse
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 09:08:33 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Scott ,

According to the "Larousse Universel", 'perlasse' is a name given to the
whitest, purest types of potassium hydroxide/caustic potash/carbonates of
potassium...
'Potasse' is the name given to several of the potassic derivates and the
commercial name for all impure varieties of potassium carbonate.

As to l'Ordre Souverain des Freres Aines de la Rose Croix, I wish I COULD
help! The only really useful suggestion I might have is McIntosh's
bibliography in 'The Rosy Cross Unveiled' (Wellingborough, 1980), where,
amongst other more standard references, one also comes across the following:

- Frick, Karl R. H., 'Die Erleuchten/Licht und Finsternis Pts I and II (Graz,
1973-8)
- Schick, Hans, 'Das alterer Rozenkreutzertum. Ein Beitrag zur
Entstehungsgeschichte der Freimaurerei' (Berlin, Nordland Verlag, 1942).
[This text, McIntosh claims, although written under comission for the
Reichsfuhrer-SS using documents confiscated by the GESTAPO - (please forgive
for evoking either of these foul names or the filth that lies behind them!) -
is one of the best studies of early Rosicrucianism... I mention it for what
it's worth.]

An online source, if you read French, might be:

http://wwwperso.hol.fr:~jdauge/homepage.html

which is a French site performing much the same service as Adam's (though on a
far more restricted scale), some of the material on which I hope to be
translating in the near future... It might, in fact, be an idea for Adam to
establish a direct link to it for those who read French: it already has one to
his...

Do let us know, however, if you track the group down... I, for one, would be
MOST interested.

Respectfully,
md

----------------------

P.S. Added by Adam McLean
For the 'Freres Aines de la Rose Croix' see message 0777 on the alchemy forum archive on the web site, where Joel Tetard gives some information on recent French groups including this one of Roger Caro.

Subject: TEXTS - Roger Caro's Group
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:58:59 -0500
From: John Fitzpatrick

Hello Scott
The F.A.R.C is not active since the death of Roger Caro, its new Imperator
is M.P. lives in the South of France. Also the son of Roger Caro is alive
and well. It would be difficult to re-open because the Solar Temple Order
claimed they were connected with this group. It is not true. I have worked
with many of the people who were members of the Inner school and I have all
the books and documents of this great alchemical school. Many photographs
exist showing the complete work from beginning to end, some as recently as a
few months ago.
I would not be able to give any documents from this Order over the Internet
but I would be happy to answer any questions privately on this work.

Subject: TEXTS - Roger Caro's group
From: Philosophers of Nature
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:41:27 -0600

At the following web site (great for French occult books)

http://www.franceantiq.fr/slam/tersign/esoter.htm

One of the books listed, is by the late Roger Caro, who was formerly
Imperator of the Freres Aines de la Rose Croix (F.A.R.C.)

CARO (Roger). Tout le Grand Oeuvre photographié,
Clichés de Kamala-Jnana; commentaire des clichés par Roger Caro.
Préf. de l'Imperator des F.A.R.+C. Post-face de Theophoreonai.
St-Cyr-sur-Mer, l'auteur, 1968, pet. in 8°, de 22 pp. et 4 planches
volantes in 4° en ff. de 43 quadrichromies, broché. Rare et recherché.
Tiré seulement à 250 exemplaires hors commerce.

Sorry that I cannot provide any info on the current status, but I
suggest that looking for info on Caro is a way to proceed to
find more.

Regards,

Russ

Subject: TEXTS - Caro
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 22:00:33 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Scott -

Forgive me, I am an idiot! I, too, had been looking at the Intersigne site the
other day and had noticed the Caro material as interesting but probably been
slightly thrown by the prices of stuff around it (FF20000 at its extremest
limit, though the Planys Campy is only FF12000)(just as extreme examples, but
you can imagine the pulses quickened a little)

The Caro items are:

- Dictionnaire de philosophie alchimique (1961) FF500
- Rituel de reception d'un frere aine de la Rose+Croix (1972) FF400
- and Toute la Grande Oeuvre photographie (1968) FF450

The site is that mentioned by Russ in his communication (which woke me up
again, and thank you), viz.

http//www.franceantiq.fr/slam/tersign/esoter.htm

Scrap section two of my first communication immediately.

Regards,
md

Subject: TEXTS - Caro
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:56:22 +0000
From: Scott L. Whitman

Thanks, Mike...

I am aware of this site run by Alain Marchiset, but
still pricey @ $100+ with shipping, especially when you consider I'll have to pay
someone to translate too (as my French isn't that great). They
aren't even that old!

Have you seen any of these books?

I'm going to contact Caro's son to see if anything was published in
English (probably not, I would assume).

Did I ask you about Armand Toussaint? (Patriarche de I'Eglise
Rosicrucienne Aposotolique --consacra aussi Roger Caro qui fut
l'Imperator des F.A.R.C.) Also a practitioner of cinabre alchemy.
He lived to be 100+. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Scott L. Whitman
andromeda93@hotmail.com


Subject: TEXTS - Arbatel
From: Adam McLean
Date: 27th Feb 1997

Does anyone know the meaning of the word 'Arbatel' as in the 'Arbatel of Magic' included in the 'Fourth Book of Agrippa'?


Subject: TEXTS - Imagination
From: Jeffrey
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:19:49 -0500 (EST)

I am doing some research on the concept of the imagination and its role in
the alchemical opus. I am well aware of the work of Paracelsus and those who
followed him up to and including Boehme. They of course have put the
greatest possible emphasis on the imaginatio and its power in transmutation,
but I am looked for sources and references that precede Paracelsus. Anyone
know any?

Thanks

Jeff Raff

Subject: TEXTS: Blake & Alchemy
From: Vladimir Georgiev
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:27:27 +100

Have you noticed the following UK thesis on Blake and
alchemy?

Traylen, M. "'Sol' and 'Luna', 'Burn in Water and wash in
fire'; Some instances of Contraries at Work in Blake's
>Four Zoas<, >Milton< and >Jerusalem< in the Light of
Jung's Thought and His Alchemical Understanding in
>Mysterious Conjunctions<, Ph.D. thesis, Univ. of Wales,
Swansea, 1991.

Cheers,

Vlado.
vladimir Georgiev

Subject: TEXTS - Brahe and Scandanavian Alchemists
From: Pat Donovan
Date: 10 March 1997

I am trying to find information (in English) on Sofie Brahe sister of Tycho Brahe.
Apparently she studied alchemy on the island of Neve.

Can you point me in the right direction. If there is nothing that
specific. I would also be interested in the Scandinavian alchemist's.

Pat Donovan

Subject: TEXTS - Bruno and Mordente in Prague
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:46:36 +0100
From: William Hollister

I am interested in learning about Giordano Bruno's visit to Prague in 1588.
At issue, primarily, is Bruno's book entitled "160 Articles against the
Mathematicians (Prague, 1588)."

Images from this book decorate the cover of Frances Yates'
"Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition" ( Chicago University Press 1991
of the 1964 text). As far as I know, her description of these woodblock
prints is the most up-to date discussion of this text, of which perhaps
only 3 copies exist.

Yates' description of these drawings seems sets as much an enigma
as the drawings themselves. By what principle of geometry are these images
created?

Also, there are also references in the preface in Bruno's book to
Fabricio Mordente, a mathematician or astronomer in the service of Rudolph
II when Bruno came to Prague. In Paris Bruno had earlier aroused the anger
of Mordente by publishing latin "dialogues" concerning some kind of 8-point
compass. Bruno had compared Mordente to an ass, because he, in the same way
that Copernicus did not understand his heliocentric universe, had made
great a discovery, but had failed to recognize a true spiritual value.
There are apparently favorable references to Mordente in the
preface to the Prague book, for which he was paid 300 Tolars, but not given
any employment by the emperor. Lacking Rudolph II's patronage, Bruno left
Prague.
Is the story that simple? I would like to know if there is any
further information that would clarify Bruno's relationship to Mordente and
Rudolph II during that brief visit.

And finally, there is an odd book published in Britain in, I think,
1995 -- "Giordano Bruno and the Embassy affair," by John Bossy. The book
attempts to link Bruno with a man named "Fagot," suggesting that they are
one and the same person, and were spying in the court of Michel de
Castelnau. The book is really fascinating, and seems well documented. At
the same time -- I wonder -- does anybody know if this argument has any
credibility?

William Hollister

Subject: TEXTS - Hypnerotomachia
From: Adam McLean
Date: 11 March 1997

Does anyone know of a translation of the Hypnerotomachia into English? [I do not here mean the 16th century partial English translation, but a new translatuion of the whole work.]

Does anyone know of someone working to prepare such a translation?


With best wishes,

Adam McLean

Subject: TEXTS - Bruno via Bossy
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:11:07 -0500
From: Deborah Harkness

Dear All (especially William):

I reviewed Bossy for the 16th Century Journal, and have to admit that I
found Bossy's arguments persuasive while I found his argumentation
suggestive, rather than substantive. I find this often with the work of
Yates--she's dead on target, from what I can tell, I just wish there was
more supporting textual evidence.

One aside for all alchemically minded people--I think that several of
the messages marked with a Jupiter mark that travelled between Bruno and
the English intelligence community were actually passed to Walsingham
via Dee. Dee (admittedly with others) used the Jupiter mark as a
personal hieroglyph, and at the same time that the Jupiter letters are
travelling between Bruno and Walsingham, Dee has several audiences with
Walsingham (see personal Diary) and, at last, Dee is told by his angels
not to trust those in the entourage of Laski because there are spies
among them. Perhaps Bruno???

I couldn't resist adding my own circumstantial evidence, and will be
delighted to hear what others think.

Deb Harkness
Colgate University

Subject: TEXTS - Hypnerotomachia
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:26:38 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Adam McLean
>Does anyone know of a translation of the Hypnerotomachia into English? [I do
>not here mean the 16th century partial English translation, but a new
>translatuion of the whole work.]

Yeah, that's a really poor one. Similar situation with Iamblichus...

>Does anyone know of someone working to prepare such a translation?

No, but there is another version, a re-thinking of the whole thing. I
personally don't like it.

I also think that a translation to English might be difficult to say the
least. A bit like translating Finnegans Wake

Anyhow, here's the other translation:

AUTHOR: Perez Gomez, Alberto, 1949-
TITLE: Polyphilo, or, The dark forest revisited : an erotic epiphany
of architecture / Alberto Perez-Gomez.
PUBLISHED: Cambridge, Mass. : MIT Press, c1992.
DESCRIPTION: xxvii, 311 p. : ill. ; 26 cm.
NOTES: Based on: Hypnerotomachia Poliphili / Francesco Colonna.
OTHER AUTHORS: Colonna, Francesco, d. 1527 / Hypnerotomachia Poliphili.
OTHER TITLES: Polyphilo.
Dark forest revisited.
ISBN: 026216129X
0262660768 (pbk.)
OCLC NUMBER: 25025989


I assume this is the bogus 16th century one you are talking about?

AUTHOR: Colonna, Francesco, d. 1527
UNIFORM TITLE: Hypnerotomachia Poliphili. English
TITLE: Hypnerotomachia, the strife of love in a dreame (1592).
Translated by R. D. A facsim. reproduction with an introd.
by Lucy Gent.
PUBLISHED: Delmar, N.Y., Scholars' Facsimiles & Reprints, 1973.
DESCRIPTION: xix, 207 p. illus. 23 cm.
NOTES: Original t.p. reads: Hypnerotomachia. The strife of loue in a
dreame. At London, Printed for Simon Waterson, and are to be
sold at his shop, in S. Paules Churchyard, at Cheape-gate,
1592.
Translation of the first part of Hypnerotomachia Poliphili.
S.T.C. no. 5577.
OTHER AUTHORS: Dallington, Robert, 1561-1637.
ISBN: 0820111244
OCLC NUMBER: 714215


Then there's the French version:

AUTHOR: Colonna, Francesco, d. 1527
UNIFORM TITLE: Hypnerotomachia Poliphili. French
TITLE: Hypnerotomachie, ov Discours du songe de Poliphile, deduisant
comme amour le combat a l'occasion de Polia. Soubz la
fiction de quoy l'aucteur monstrant que toutes choses
terrestres ne sont que vanite, traicte de plusieurs matieres
profitables, & dignes de memoire. Nouuellement traduict de
langage italien en francois.
PUBLISHED: A Paris, Pour Iaques Keruer, 1554.
DESCRIPTION: 6 p. l., 157 numb. l., 1 l. illus. 31 cm.
NOTES: Translation of Hypnerotomachia Poliphili.
Edited by Jean Martin and Jacques Gohory. Translation is
attributed to Cardinal de Lenoncourt. Woodcut illustrations
attributed to Jean Cousin and Jean Goujon.
Colophon: Imprime pour Iaques Kerver marchant libraire iure en
l'vniuersite de Paris, par Marin Masselin le XXII. iour de
decembre, l'an M.D.LIII.
NOTES: Signatures: a6A-2B62C8(leaf I3 missigned I4)
Errors in foliation: leaves 31 and 102 misnumbered 36 and 103.
Title within ornamental border; initials, head-piece.
Kerven's unicorn device on verso of final leaf.
Harvard College Library. French 16th cent. books, no. 146, see
no. 145. Brunet, v. 4, col. 778-779.
COPY NOTES: HRC copy imperfect: leaves 114, 145, 150 and final leaf
wanting.
HRC copy has t.p. and some illustrations hand-colored.
Bookplate of Edward Alexander Parsons; inscribed: John Monck.
Ms. notes throughout text.
OTHER AUTHORS: Martin, Ian, d. ca. 1553
Gohory, Jacques, d. 1576.
Lenoncourt, Robert de, Cardinal.
Cousin, Jean, ca. 1490-1560?
OTHER AUTHORS: Goujon, Jean, 16th cent.
SPECIAL KEYWDS: Provenance: Monck, John.
Printer/Press: Kerver, Jaques.
Printer/Press: Masselin, Marin.
OTHER TITLES: Discours du songe de Poliphile.
Poliphile.
OCLC NUMBER: 6963783


Finally there's this, that's easily found in pbk.:

AUTHOR: Barolini, Helen, 1925-
TITLE: Aldus and his dream book : an illustrated essay / by Helen
Barolini.
PUBLISHED: New York : Italica Press, 1992.
DESCRIPTION: xxii, 221 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
NOTES: Includes bibliographical references (p. 199-204) and index.
SUBJECTS: Manuzio, Aldo, 1449 or 50-1515
Colonna, Francesco, d. 1527 Hypnerotomachia Poliphili.
Printing--Italy--Venice--History--Origin and antecedents.
Printing--Italy--Venice--History--16th century.
Printers--Italy--Biography.
Scholars--Italy--Biography.
Editors--Italy--Biography.
ISBN: 0934977224 (pbk.)
0934977283 (limited special ed.)
OCLC NUMBER: 24143069

G. Leake

Subject: TEXTS - Hypnerotomachia
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:05:34 +0200 (EET)
From: Stefan Alexe

Is there also a German version of the Hypnerotomachia Poliphili?
Ioan P. Culianu wrote about this text in "Eros and Magic in the Renaissance" (I must check for the exact title, I think the book is in French). What other commentaries are also available?

With best wishes

Stefan Alexe

Subject: TEXTS - Hypnerotomachia
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:22:07 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Stefan Alexe
>
>Is there also a German version of the Hypnerotomachia Poliphili?
>Ioan P. Culianu wrote about this text in "Eros and Magic in the
>Renaissance" (I must check for the exact title, I think the book is in
>French). What other commentaries are also available?

Yeah, well I've been reading Eros & Magic in the Renaissance of late as
well--I'd suggest that Couliano probably read the original text since he
obviously has read many texts in the original Latin--

The commentaries on the Hypnerotomachia Poliphilo are numerous--history of
printing people, bibliographers, poetry critics--there's a lot written
about the text from many angles.

George Leake

Subject: TEXTS - Hypnerotomachia
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:58:20 -0700
From: Tom Willard


>From: Stefan Alexe

>Is there also a German version of the Hypnerotomachia Poliphili? Ioan P.
>Culianu wrote about this text in "Eros and Magic in the Renaissance" (I
>must check for the exact title, I think the book is in French). What
>other commentaries are also available?

I wonder if he is referring to Linda Fierz-David, Liebestraum des
Poliphilo, translated into English as The Dream of Poliphilo (New York :
Pantheon, 1950) and reprinted in the Jungian Classics Seriesn no. 8
(Dallas: Spring Publications, 1987). This book is a partial translation
with illustrations and commentary.

Tom Willard

Subject: TEXTS - Kybalion
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:32:58 -0700
From: Maria Angeles Alonso

I am a Earth scientist (geologist) and the main reason for which I am
interested in that group is more or less fortuitous.. Three years ago I
found in a Spaniish bookstore in Madrid a book that trapped my attention,
without awareness of how much it would influence on me. The title was
something like "The Kybalion", a study about the Hermetic Philosophy
of Ancient Egypt and Greece", apparently it is a resume of the Seven
Hermetic Principles. Since it was my first contact with Hermetic Philosophy
I wanted to know more about it, but the book was anonymous except for
the final signature: "the three Initiated", no copyrights, no dates, no references,
the only information was that the book was a traslation of the original
text in English "The Kybalion".

Like I was clueless I decided to explore through Internet using the word
Kybalion, and this is how I met The Alchemy Web site. I did not have
access to other sources of information until then, because I like that book
very much I'd like to know who wrote it and what were the original texts
and information as well as to discuss some of its insights. Could anyone
give some information?,

Subject: TEXTS - Kybalion
From: Noel Kettering
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:24:22 -0500

Maria Angeles Alonso asked about the Kybalion.

The book is available from the Builders of the Adytum

They have a web-site http://www.atanda.com/bota/

I copied this from the catalog page:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Kybalion, Hermetic Philosophy by Three Initiates
Ever since its first publication in 1912, this volume dealing
with the seven principles upon which the entire Hermetic
Philosophy is based, has been in constant demand. Its authors
concealed their names, probably with the view that what was
written must stand in its own right without claims of authority.
Hardcover, 223 pages, 5" x 7 1/2". Item #1006 (SW 12 oz) $13.00
-----------------------------------------------------------------
El Kybalion, Traducción al Español Item #1106 (SW 12 oz) $13.00
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Tradition has it, that one of the "Three Initiates" was Paul
Foster Case, founder of BOTA and former head of the Golden Dawn
in America.

Noel

Subject: TEXTS - Kybalion
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:05:57 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Maria Angeles Alonso
>Like I was clueless I decided to explore through Internet using the word
>Kybalion, and this is how I met The Alchemy Web site. I did not have
>access to other sources of information until then, because I like that book
>very much I'd like to know who wrote it and what were the original texts
>and information as well as to discuss some of its insights. Could anyone
>give some information?,

I think this work has been included in anthologies elsewhere. A quick
look at the UT online catalog tells me there's a copy available via
Inter-Library Loan Service which many libraries in the USA participate in.
Please contact me off the list for more info. Although I think Kybalion
might be more easily found.

taliesin@mail.utexas.edu

Subject: TEXTS - The Kybalion
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:27:11 +0100
From: Michal Pober

>From: Maria Angeles Alonso
>Three years ago I
>found in a Spanish bookstore in Madrid a book that trapped my attention,
>without awareness of how much it would influence on me. The title was
>something like "The Kybalion", a study about the Hermetic Philosophy
>of Ancient Egypt and Greece", apparently it is a resume of the Seven
>Hermetic Principles. Since it was my first contact with Hermetic Philosophy
>I wanted to know more about it, but the book was anonymous except for
>the final signature: "the three Initiated", no copyrights, no dates, no
>references,
>the only information was that the book was a traslation of the original
>text in English "The Kybalion".
>
>Like I was clueless I decided to explore through Internet using the word
>Kybalion, and this is how I met The Alchemy Web site. I did not have
>access to other sources of information until then, because I like that book
>very much I'd like to know who wrote it and what were the original texts
>and information as well as to discuss some of its insights.



Dear MAA
I loved your story of your introduction to this book.
Its apocryphal, or archetypal..
I know mothing of the book whatsoever, except a couple of mentions that
ocurred a while ago on another venue, which I quote for you here:

>Jean,
>I believe the book he is referring to is:
>"The Kabalion of the 3 Initiates" published by Yogi Publishing Society.
>For a short overview of Kabalion principles, check out:

>>http://www.spiritone.com/~skhtmt/skhtmt/mysticism/7hermetic/7hermetic.htm<

>Scott L. Whitman
>>Hi--I'm new to the list, and hoping someone may be able to help me answer
>>a question. I'm a librarian in northern California, and one of our
>>patrons is looking for information about the Kybalion. He says this book
>>is his bible, but he has always wondered about where the title comes from
>>and what it means. He thinks Kybalion may be a Greek or Egyptian word,
>>and would like it translated.
>>I haven't read The Kybalion, and all I know about it came from reading
>>the remarks in the Alchemy Forum archives. Am I correct in thinking that
>>Kybalion may be a varient spelling of Kabbalah? If not, can anyone tell
>>me what the word does mean and where it comes from? This would mean a
>>great deal to our patron, who is a very nice regular customer of our
>>library.
>>Jean Hewlett


Also, I remember Lapis also referring to the Kybalion and I'm sure he'll be
able to give you much more hard info.

Regards,
michal

Subject: TEXTS - The Kybalion
From: Noel Kettering
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:58:41 -0500

There is a question as to the origin and meaning of the
word "KYBALION".

It is an artificially coined word of Greek derivation,
chosen because, by sound, it resembles both Qabalah and
Cybele (Asiatic mother of the gods.)

The Kybalion has to do with the Great Work of equilibrating
the powers of the Spiritual Sun, so as to produce the Stone
of the Wise.

When spelled with Greek letters, some of the gematria of the
word KYBALION would be:

583 (TMYRA DTMYRYN) Temira De-Temirin (Hebrew)
Concealed of the Concealed - a title of Kether

583 (MSThGP) misetageyph (Hebrew)
A hidden body; Hermit

583 (elektron) (Greek)
Alloy of Gold and Silver

That which is concealed within every form is the ONE THING,
the ONE Identity, the ONE Life - in perfect solitude, hidden
within every thought, every action, every form - a perfect
UNITY, the complete Union of Super-consciousness and Sub-
consciousness, held in a perfect Self-conscious balance.

Noel

Subject: TEXTS - The Kybalion
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:33:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan

Maria,

Re: Authorship of Kybalion

From alchemy forum:

Sun Feb 25 15:45:13 1996
Subject: 0300 A Lighter Moment
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:28 NZDT

>From: LeGrand Cinq-Mars
>
>This is a bit of a digression -- but I have heard that Paul Case
>was one of the auhtors of the Kybalion; now Pat Zalewski says that
>all three were expelled by Moina Mathers. Who were the other two?
>Is there any good material available on the authorship and background
>of the _Kybalion_?

They were Michael Whitty and Charles Atkins, the other two chiefs of the
Thoth Hermes temple.
Pat Zalewski